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Lampstands

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by CoreIssue, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Wby were there no lampstands in the Bible before Israel?
     
  2. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    Exodus 25:31 31 “You shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand shall be made of hammered work: its base, its stem, its cups, its calyxes, and its flowers shall be of one piece with it.
    I am not sure what your question is but, as far as I know, the Moving Tabernacle was where the Lampstand was first introduced, from the beginning of Israels Exodus. Do you mean this as being "before Israel"?
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    What do Lampstands represent? That is the key.

    There are more than just the Lampstand of Israel.
     
  4. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    Originally there was one lampstand hammered out of one piece of gold. It consisted of six branches not including the center branch and therefore had 7 lamps on the one Lampstand..what are you referring to?
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    There is the one Lampstand to Israel, the seven lampstands of the Church and the two Lampstands of Israel in Revelation.

    They all represent one thing. What is it?
     
  6. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    Well, I guess I better do some studying,,,all I know is one original Lampstand with seven lamps, the design ordained and directed by God and its purpose was to represent Christ. Later , I believe in Revelation, Rev. 1:20 there mentions 7 golden lampstands which I believe were representative of the 7 churches at that time, Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea. Of course, all seven also represent Christ. Is that what you were looking for?
     
  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    They represent covenants. The oil is the Holy Spirit, the lamps are the seven angels.

    The first was to one people. Israel. The second to the Church represented by the 7 churches that represent the Ages of the Church. The third is the Two Witnesses for the New Covenant to the reunited Houses of Israel and Judah.

    Before Israel there was no such covenant.

    During these time period is when God dealt with Man to reveal more law, expectations, prophecy and knowledge.
     
  8. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    No The seven stars where the angels of the seven churches and the lampstands where the churches.

    As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
    Revelations 1:20
     
  9. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    The 7 angels are the lamps of all the covenant lampstands.

    When the lampstand of Israel was removed, the angels remained.

    When the Rapture occurs, the Church lampstands are gone but the lamps/angels remain.
    The next lampstands mentioned are the Two Witnesses.

    Nor are they limited in purpose.
    Read through the rest of Revelation. The seven angel are referred to repeatedly.

    Lampstands are not used in the Bible for any other purpose but covenants.

    The oil is the Holy Spirit that feeds the lamps to give light to the world. The covenants give formal testimony and validations to the light.
     
  10. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    • There are Seven Covenants in the Bible......1. Adamic Covenant. Found in Genesis 1:26-30 and 2:16-17, this covenant is general in nature. It included the command not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, pronounced a curse for sin, and spoke of a future provision for man's redemption (Genesis 3:15).

      2. Noahic Covenant. This general covenant was made between God and Noah following the departure of Noah, his family, and the animals from the ark. Found in Genesis 9:11, "I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." This covenant included a sign of God's faithfulness to keep it—the rainbow.

      3. Abrahamic Covenant. This unconditional covenant, first made to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3, promised God's blessing upon Abraham, to make his name great and to make his progeny into a great nation. The covenant also promised blessing to those who blessed Abraham and cursing to those who cursed him. Further, God vowed to bless the entire world through Abraham's seed. Circumcision was the sign that Abraham believed the covenant (Romans 4:11). The fulfillment of this covenant is seen in the history of Abraham's descendants and in the creation of the nation of Israel. The worldwide blessing came through Jesus Christ, who was of Abraham's family line.

      4. Palestinian Covenant. This unconditional covenant, found in Deuteronomy 30:1-10, noted God's promise to scatter Israel if they disobeyed God, then to restore them at a later time to their land. This covenant has been fulfilled twice, with the Babylonian Captivity and subsequent rebuilding of Jerusalem under Cyrus the Great; and with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, followed by the reinstatement of the nation of Israel in 1948.

      5. Mosaic Covenant. This conditional covenant, found in Deuteronomy 11 and elsewhere, promised the Israelites a blessing for obedience and a curse for disobedience. Much of the Old Testament chronicles the fulfillment of this cycle of judgment for sin and later blessing when God's people repented and returned to God.

      6. Davidic Covenant. This unconditional covenant, found in 2 Samuel 7:8-16, promised to bless David's family line and assured an everlasting kingdom. Jesus is from the family line of David (Luke 1:32-33) and, as the Son of David (Mark 10:47), is the fulfillment of this covenant.

      7. New Covenant. This covenant, found in Jeremiah 31:31-34, promised that God would forgive sin and have a close, unbroken relationship with His people. The promise was first made to Israel and then extended to everyone who comes to Jesus Christ in faith (Matthew 26:28; Hebrews 9:1
    • I gave you Rev 1:20 that states that the lampstands ( candle sticks) represent the Seven Chureches of that day.
    • Your scriptures didn't say that the lampstands represent the covenants...could you please quote scripture that back that up?
     
  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    The topic is Lampstands, not covenants. There are only three covenants in the Bible with Lampstands.

    All of them are avenues to preach God's will and revelations. All of them have a covenant people charged with preaching and teaching..

    None of the others you listed do these things. I never said a word about there not being more covenants of different purposes, etc.

    How about dealing with all the Lampstands?
     
  12. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    O.k. ..I will always do my best to stay in the confines of scripture, thank you for the discussion..... I'm done.
     
  13. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Interesting. You don't want to discuss it? Why?
     
  14. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    Simply, I thought I had discussed it with scripture support, thank you for the discussion...I look forward to more and different discussions...the minimum thing is that as always, It is all about God's Grace and none of our doing! Jesus is Lord and Savior!:biggrin1:
     
  15. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Most assuredly agree on God's grace.

    Closing this one out, as I said, the topic was lampstands. Not covenants. Plus there are two more than the Church Age lampstands.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  16. CTZonEdit

    CTZonEdit Site Administrator Staff Member

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    Got a few questions myself...

    The first lampstand for Israel. The 7 lamps represents the 7 tribes?
    The 7 lampstands for the Church. That's 7 lamps for each stand. 49 lamps. What do the 49 lamps represent?
    The 2 lampstands for the Witnesses. That's 14 lamps. What do the 14 lamps represent?
     
  17. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    The lamps always represent the seven angels.

    There are seven lampstands in the Church. They only have one lamp each. They are different from the lampstand of Israel. Different covenants to different people.

    The Two Witnesses are the lampstands. The seven angel lamps are the ones ones mentioned for the seven time periods of the Trib.

    Lampstands are covenants. First to only Israel, then seven to the Church and the seven time period of the Church Age and then the two to the Houses of Israel and Judah that are reunited, as is the broken staff is rejoined into one.

    The covenant people are Israel followed by the Church followed by Israel and Judah reunited as one people again, Israel.

    Always to one people with seven angels acting for God.
     
  18. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    I have done a Strong's Exhaustive word search occurrence for Lampstand (38), Lampstands (10), Candlestick (34) and Covenant (309). So far, unless I have missed something, I see no correlation between Lampstands and Covenants at all. Possibly you could help by offering scripture that support your claim?
     
  19. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Not everything in the Bible is spelled out plainly. There are multiple layers one learns as they study more and more.
    Do you see the three lampstands used for any other issue that than the three covenants that deal with a chosen people through which God gives revelation, preaching and teaching? No. So there is a connection.

    In the OT candles and oil lamps were used. But the lampstand with the 7 lamps is in the Holy of Holies before the throne of God, as are the 7 lampstands and Two Witnesse in Revelation. Another connection.

    The lamps being angels has already been shown.

    The Holy spirit is oil. Do the search "holy spirit is oil."

    A lampstand symbolizes the chosen people of the covenant, the oil the Holy Spirit who feeds the lamps that are the light to the people of the covenant.

    With the Two witness, the lampstands become two people who are empowered by the Holy Spirit with the 7 angels at work in the seven seals. The covenant is the New Covenant to the Houses of Israel and Judah.

    In all of these the only thing that changes is the covenant lampstand. The oil and the angels remain the same.

    Remember, Revelation, like the OT, is not written to the Gentiles, but to the Jews.

    You have to dig and learn to put it all together. Like the Dragon of Revelation is not identified there. But you find the identity elsewhere.

    Or the role of the Holy Spirit as the Restrainer, the AC kingdom/Mystery Babylon, etc.

    Hope that helps.
     
  20. Richard Johnston

    Richard Johnston New Member

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    You said covenants. Near 382 verses I researched, yet not "one" is there remotely a comparison between lampstands and covenants. Respectively, the New Covenant is what we live in and fall under, I think we should confine discussions to what this covenant means which would be more edifying for others and, leave this discussion about Lampstands / covenants behind unless, you have specific scripture of course!
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016

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