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Statement of Faith


Pro Poster
While CTZ is open for all thinking to be discussed and debated, it is important to understand what the Administration of CTZ believes. That is only fair to the users.

Therefore, a summary of what we believe follows:

  • The Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God.
  • God is spirit only. He has no flesh.
  • God is a uni-plural word meaning three persons of absolutely equal and unlimited power, knowledge, presence, nature and purpose working as a singular whole.
  • In the Old Testament, theologically, God was known as the First, Second and Third Person (Holy Spirit).
  • At the Incarnation, the First Person commanded the Second Person to enter the virgin Mary to take on human flesh via the action of the Holy Spirit.
  • The male side of Christ comes from the Father, the female from Mary, thus Christ, while being human, did not inherit any sinful nature, as the rest of us have.
  • The flesh the Son took on is Christ. It did not exist before the Incarnation except as part of God's Plan.
  • The flesh of Christ is only human. The spirit of Christ is only God. The mind of Christ is human and God. This Christ is God and Man at the same time.
  • Since sin entered the world via Adam, the First Man, only another Man could pay the sin price. That is why the Son came to be.
  • The First Person now is known as the Father, the Second the Son and the Third the Holy Spirit.
  • All humans born via sex have a sin nature within their flesh.
  • Sin condemns all to Hell and the Lake of fire.
  • The only escape is via the Blood Payment and Resurrection of Christ.
  • To obtain this payment requires faith in Christ alone. There is no other way and no works that can save anyone.

While all the areas encompass greater areas of understanding and study, these are the foundational understandings from which all else stems.

This is not the statement of faith that was here when I registered 10 years ago and after reading the new one carefully, … I do not agree with it,

so I'll be moving on ...




Staff member
While the wording has changed a little for clarity, it is the same beliefs since the website was founded in 2004.

If the issue is the pre-incarnation claims of some for Christ, I challenge you to show me anything in the Bible supporting
that claim.

John 1 makes it crystal clear the flesh of Christ did not exist before the incarnation.


Site Administrator
Staff member
I see nothing drastically that would change ones mind.

Its pretty clear Christ did not exist before the incarnation.
If he did that would give Christ eternal flesh.
Man does not have eternal flesh.
Therefore Christ's sacrifice would be meaningless to Mankind.

Christ was fully tempted as a mortal man, died as a mortal man and rose again or his sacrifice was for nothing and means absolutely nothing to mortal man.


Pro Poster
Here is your original content …

There is a very subtle (I assume unintentional) error here … I missed it as well ...


To turn the historical Christ into just another man forces all the claims of being born sinless, living a sinless life, and so on to go out the window. So the very foundation of the salvation message is destroyed. After all, Christ was declared God and he himself claimed to be God but if only a man he lied, which is a sin.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

And who is the Alpha and Omega?

Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Or that Christ is a lesser god and not God himself. Again these verses would be a lie if such were true.


There is little disagreement that the body means our flesh. It is the material container our spirits reside in and relate to the physical world through.

There is also little disagreement the spirit is the eternal, non-physical portion of us that continues when the earthly flesh dies. There should also be little disagreement that our spirits are fully capable of thinking, remembering, and so on without any flesh.

Christ’s spirit is 100% God. His flesh is 100% man. If his soul is a mix and merge of God and man would that not make him truly all God, all Man, and both at the same time?

First part is right … the Spirit of my Lord Jesus is the second person of the Godhead …

The Second part is also right in that He was and is and will be a human being until the restitution of all things and then we aren't sure what will happen although I'm sure it will be an adventure …

You get into trouble with the following statement … let's look at it …

Christ’s spirit is 100% God. His flesh is 100% man. If his soul is a mix and merge of God and man would that not make him truly all God, all Man, and both at the same time?

This is tricky, because on the surface it seems logical until you realize that His soul is exactly like our soul in that it is the union of spirit and the body (sarx) … your error is using the word “man” … human being (man, mankind) by definition is spirit and body …

It's like trying to draw a distinction between an automobile engine and an automobile by saying they are different … (this actually hurts because it just does not fit right, it is tangent to logical thought) ...

The point is they are different but the automobile by definition comes with an engine or it just isn't a functioning automobile … and so my Lord Jesus, the human being, must come with a spirit and His happens to be the Second person of the Godhead, … you can't separate His spirit from His carcass and still have a human being … His Spirit is an intrinsic part of His humanity just like your spirit is an intrinsic part of your humanity …

So, the second person of the Godhead is now abiding as a human being whose name is above every name and at whose name every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth (Philippians 2:10) … until such a time as He sees fit to do something else …

Please do not divide My Lord Jesus … He is a human being whose spirit happens to be God …!

I hope you can understand the subtle error here …

In hindsight it is wrong to say that He is 100% God combined with 100% human being … you need to say He is 100% God combined with a 100% human body (sarx) to form one amazing, functioning, human being … who also happens to be God …

Sarx (carcass) without a spirit is not a human being …

O.K. that's it … hope this helps a bit …

I hope you can come to grips with this … it is the key to understanding a few other things …




Staff member
Our spirit is the eternal part of us, the true us, where the Holy Spirit dwells when he baptizes us.

The flesh is a container. It contains our brain, feelings etc.

The soul is not eternal. It is the interface of our flesh and spirit. Our connection to the world.

The second person of the Trinity took on human flesh to be able to die on the cross and live with us in this Earth. To experience humanity first-hand.

God is a spirit and not composed of flesh.

The second person of the Trinity will always be God. The flesh will never be God.

The flesh will always be human. Glorified in eternity.

The second person of the Trinity will always dwell within flesh without becoming flesh.

This is a concept we struggle with to understand.

When Christ died on the cross his humanity died, but never his divinity.

Just as one human dies, their flesh goes to the grave and the spirit goes to either heaven or hell. They remain separate until the first or second resurrection.

Think of it as driving a car. We enter the car without becoming the car. We use the car to take us places without becoming the car. We connect to the world via the car without becoming the car.

The second person of the Trinity is God. The flesh is not.

The second person of the Trinity has no beginning or end.

The flesh of Christ has a beginning.

The spirit and flesh lived together as one person, but that does not make them the same thing.

Just as the Godhead is three persons in a singular unity of one God.

They do not merge into one person, but work together as one.

So I am not dividing Christ. I am understanding him per the Bible as best I can.

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