Speak Light
restricted access
.
But - The Trinitarian Translations do not express or describe a Jesus existing " previously " as only a mere prophetic promise - to come in the future.
What does the Bible say about Joh 17
KJV - Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
This is the Trinitarian false translation, BUT WHY WOULD TRINITARIANS MISTRANSLATE THIS PASSAGE IN THIS WAY ? ?
how would this mistranslation be relating to the trinity - why was it important TO INVENT THE IDEA that the glory that Jesus had, with the father was - ONLY WITH JESUS, BEFORE THAT THE WORLD WAS CREATED.
Here is the original message of the Greek manuscript.
:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before - του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.
5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
does anyone understand how or why in Trinitarian theology, Jesus had a previous literal physical bodily existence and glory with the Father before the world was created, THEN, HE SUDDENLY LOST ALL OF THIS GLORY - IMMEDIATELY after the world was created, and then came to be born on earth - THEN HE RESURRECTS AND ASCENDS TO HEAVEN TO AGAIN RECEIVE AGAIN THE SAME GLORY THAT HE HAD LOST, FOR APROX 4000 YEARS, SINCE THE CREATION OF THE EARTH.
this is how the Trinitarian Translation is attempting to explain - what Yahashua was doing and who he was for the first 4000 years after creation. He was a second person of the Trinity - who existed before the world was created with glory of the father, he then, LOST ALL THIS GLORY AND WAS STRIPPED OF ALL this glory immediately, just after the EARTH was created - only to regain the glory again, after he had been resurrected.
How then, is he Co – Equal, if he goes up and down - progressing up and down and then up again, moving through stages of power and glory - loosing and regaining his glory - and does not have the power or ability or right to maintain his glory eternally ?
This contradicts the Trinity doctrine. ? what is CO - Equal and Co - Eternal about Jesus the son - HOW IS JESUS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER ?
If we go to the original Greek manuscripts
Saying Joh 17:5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
Joh 17:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before,, - του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.
This is a huge difference - Yahashua is saying that he will be glorified with the same glory he had with the father - HE WILL BE GLORIFIED with this same glory - and GLORIFIED UNTO THE WORLD
- not before the world was created - the Trinitarians completely alter this passage - but why ?
he was preparing to immediately die thereafter - and return back to the father - THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE, “ will be “ manifested - TO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
In Trinitarian doctrine, the divine nature of the eternal Son is defined as the possession of CO EQUAL and CO - ETERNAL
But in the Trinitarian Translation, he was void of the Glory with the Father for the first APROX 4000 YEARS after creation. He did not have the divine nature returned to him until after he resurrected.
The manuscripts explain - :6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me OUT OF THE WORLD : thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. :7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. :8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely THAT - I CAME OUT FROM THEE ……… /
in - THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
The K.J.V renders this passage to change it to say . ... .
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
This is a completely untruthful translation - Trinitarians are removing words, moving words around and adding words.
The original says Joh 17:5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE, TO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
Then he goes on explaining in detail how this GLORY WILL BE MANIFESTED TO THE WORLD because, here - he is at the ending of his ministry and will die in a few days and return to the father. Paul speaks about having been chosen before the foundation of the world - having been given to us before the creation of the world.
Does this mean we literally pre-existed as PERSONS before at the foundation of the world - or, did we exist in the foreknowledge and pre – destination plan of God ?
The Translation attempts to invent the idea that jesus existed as a separate 2 nd person of God before the world was created, that they mistranslated, altered and changed Joh 17:5 to insert the trinity doctrine.
Trinitarians pretend to explain the Trinity by making Bible Jokes - bouncing back and forth - bouncing from one contradiction to the next, in their mis – translation - ONE MISTRANSLATED CONTRADICTION IS OVER - RIDDEN and CANCELED OUT = BY ANOTHER CONTRADICTION
the Trinitarian trick is to keep bouncing and to keep you bouncing. - Their Translation specifically was written to bounce contradictions off of one another and these endless contradictions are what builds and explains the Trinity for them.
How Can Trinitarians explain why that the only begotten Son of God and the “ Holy Spirit “ are never once mentioned anywhere in the manuscripts of the Old Testament ?
The Trinitarian Translations do not express or describe a Jesus existing " previously " as only a mere prophetic promise - to come in the future.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent:
if The Old Testament believers were worshiping the Godhead / trinity in a manner that was incorrect and false, how then did Jesus exist " previously " as only prophetic promise ?
The Translation is claiming that God had allowed people to incorrectly worship and disregard the true worship and teaching that - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit existed in three persons in GODHEAD / TRINITY
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent: - repent for incorrectly worshiping the Godhead / trinity .
How could someone mistakenly or falsely or disobediently worship and rebel against something that did not exist yet and never was revealed to them nor heard of ?
The Trinitarian Translation presents a second person who already pre existed - who is not coming OUT of God, but who already exists in heaven with God and is being re - positioned, re - located and moving from one existing position to another, who is being PROMOTED to be seated literally beside { AT or ON } the throne or AT - ON the right hand of God.
Yet the manuscripts says - sit ex / OUT OF my right -
while the Translation says sit AT / ON my right hand
here this pre – existing separate, distinct CO - Equal, CO - Eternal second person of God is being promoted and re - located, re – positioned as pre – existing and simply is relocating himself to exist " ON " or “ AT “ - beside the right hand side of the throne of the father.
Please remember - Yahoshua says three things here about his identity.
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT FOR FROM / OF - MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -
John 8:42
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -
εγω I AM - γαρ FOR - εκ OUT / FROM - του THE - θεου GOD - εξηλθον CAME OUT -
και AND - ηκω COME - ουδε NOT - γαρ FOR - απ FROM / OF - εμαυτου MYSELF - εληλυθα I COME - αλλ NEITHER - εκεινος MYSELF - με I - απεστειλεν SENT.
Meaning - Yahoshua was not a mere “ departing exiting FORM “ nor MORPH of his OWN pre - existence. - - Nor even a departed FORM or MORPH of his own self " himself. " as a separate pre-existing 2 nd person.
But truly the Trinity is completely in contradiction - BECAUSE - Yahoshua defines the terms in His message - by saying that He does nothing of His own self - saying that I can do nothing whatsoever of my own doing. - I do not have any power of miracles, of my own " I do not have a will of my own - I CANNOT DO anything, whatsoever - OF MY OWN ... Saying that it is the father only, that does the miracles and the works.
He has no power, no control, no miracles, no knowledge and there is no good, no honor, and no GOOD REPUTATION in Him. - as a distinct, separate individual CO EQUAL or CO ETERNAL SEPARATED DEITY OR PERSON.
Saying - why do you call me " good " ? -- " There is NO ONE good but God alone " - -
Every time He spoke of his own will, power, majesty and desire and purpose " We find that He denied the trinity doctrine- Yet at the same time, he and the scriptures declare that He was God Himself - He was from heaven, and He PRE EXISTED / ORIGINATED - in the bosom of the father and EXITED from { out from } the bosom of the father to sit in the RIGHT of God, until God's enemies are a footstool..
He came OUT of God's spirit and returns back to God's spirit - to sit IN the throne of GOD..... - because this is his spirit – The Holy Spirit - the only mediator.
The Word Made Flesh that will return back to sit in the throne of the Father and of the Lamb.
in the manuscripts, Jesus is - NOT BEING REVEALED AND SENT TO EARTH SIMPLY JUST BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT HE HAS BEEN PROMOTED, ENDORSED, AND RE – POSITIONED TO MOVE AND CHANGE HIS SEAT IN HEAVEN TO DWELL ON / AT THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE THRONE
But he is - BEING REVEALED AND SENT TO EARTH - by the fact that he is exiting OUT of God
sit ex / OUT OF my right -
THE ONLY QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR TRINITARIANS - IS SIMPLY THIS.
IF - The Bible says He is to sit / dwell - “ IN “ the right or “ AT “ the right hand of God - UNTIL - UNTIL such and such a time. = Dwell here - UNTIL - this time comes
or
If he was to be there ‘ until ‘ such a such and such a time, this means he was not always there. And after such and such a time passes - where will he again return regarding his original place ? I honestly just do not see how Trinitarians can answer this question and I have never received an answer from anyone who holds to the Trinity faith.
My question is simply this- - - WHY IS YAHASHUA CHANGING / ALTERING and MODIFYING and ADJUSTING / MORPHING and LOWERING and DECREASING and REDUCING HIMSELF -
WHY IS YAHASHUA becoming empty / void and vacant of existing as EQUALLY God and SUDDENDLY SUDDENLY CHANGING HIMSELF TO BECOME A SERVANT OF GOD
WHY IS YAHASHUA SUDDENLY CHANGED AND ALTERED TO THE POINT THAT HE NO LONGER EXISTS TO BE EQUAL TO GOD.
BUT HIMSELF, HE HAS SUDDENLY BECAME EMPTY / changed altered BECOME VOID OF EQUALITY TO GOD
CHANGING INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM THAT WHICH HE PRE EXISTED = CHANGING INTO BECOMING A SERVANT
He is changed and lowered into - THE MORPH OF A SERVANT, RECEIVING IN THE LIKENESS OF MANKIND, HE BECAME.
IF – Yahashua lowered himself - emptied himself - he CHANGED and ALTERED HIMSELF - BECOMING A SERVANT OF GOD
WHY - would he be lowering himself - why would he be ALTERING AND CHANGING HIMSELF TO BE CHANGED INTO A SERVANT OF GOD AND LESSER THAN GOD – changing to becoming a servant and obedient to the father
If this is who and what he already was ?
The Trinitarian Jesus was always obedient, subservient, submissive, controlled and commanded by his superior - the Father . why then is he changing himself ? emptying himself ? - being changed, altered and being made into this obedient servant, - why is he becoming what he already was - this who and what this 2 nd person already existed as, in the Trinity doctrine.
But - The Trinitarian Translations do not express or describe a Jesus existing " previously " as only a mere prophetic promise - to come in the future.
What does the Bible say about Joh 17
KJV - Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
This is the Trinitarian false translation, BUT WHY WOULD TRINITARIANS MISTRANSLATE THIS PASSAGE IN THIS WAY ? ?
how would this mistranslation be relating to the trinity - why was it important TO INVENT THE IDEA that the glory that Jesus had, with the father was - ONLY WITH JESUS, BEFORE THAT THE WORLD WAS CREATED.
Here is the original message of the Greek manuscript.
:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before - του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.
5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
does anyone understand how or why in Trinitarian theology, Jesus had a previous literal physical bodily existence and glory with the Father before the world was created, THEN, HE SUDDENLY LOST ALL OF THIS GLORY - IMMEDIATELY after the world was created, and then came to be born on earth - THEN HE RESURRECTS AND ASCENDS TO HEAVEN TO AGAIN RECEIVE AGAIN THE SAME GLORY THAT HE HAD LOST, FOR APROX 4000 YEARS, SINCE THE CREATION OF THE EARTH.
this is how the Trinitarian Translation is attempting to explain - what Yahashua was doing and who he was for the first 4000 years after creation. He was a second person of the Trinity - who existed before the world was created with glory of the father, he then, LOST ALL THIS GLORY AND WAS STRIPPED OF ALL this glory immediately, just after the EARTH was created - only to regain the glory again, after he had been resurrected.
How then, is he Co – Equal, if he goes up and down - progressing up and down and then up again, moving through stages of power and glory - loosing and regaining his glory - and does not have the power or ability or right to maintain his glory eternally ?
This contradicts the Trinity doctrine. ? what is CO - Equal and Co - Eternal about Jesus the son - HOW IS JESUS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER ?
If we go to the original Greek manuscripts
Saying Joh 17:5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
Joh 17:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before,, - του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.
This is a huge difference - Yahashua is saying that he will be glorified with the same glory he had with the father - HE WILL BE GLORIFIED with this same glory - and GLORIFIED UNTO THE WORLD
- not before the world was created - the Trinitarians completely alter this passage - but why ?
he was preparing to immediately die thereafter - and return back to the father - THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE, “ will be “ manifested - TO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
In Trinitarian doctrine, the divine nature of the eternal Son is defined as the possession of CO EQUAL and CO - ETERNAL
But in the Trinitarian Translation, he was void of the Glory with the Father for the first APROX 4000 YEARS after creation. He did not have the divine nature returned to him until after he resurrected.
The manuscripts explain - :6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me OUT OF THE WORLD : thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. :7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. :8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely THAT - I CAME OUT FROM THEE ……… /
in - THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
The K.J.V renders this passage to change it to say . ... .
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
This is a completely untruthful translation - Trinitarians are removing words, moving words around and adding words.
The original says Joh 17:5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE, TO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
Then he goes on explaining in detail how this GLORY WILL BE MANIFESTED TO THE WORLD because, here - he is at the ending of his ministry and will die in a few days and return to the father. Paul speaks about having been chosen before the foundation of the world - having been given to us before the creation of the world.
Does this mean we literally pre-existed as PERSONS before at the foundation of the world - or, did we exist in the foreknowledge and pre – destination plan of God ?
The Translation attempts to invent the idea that jesus existed as a separate 2 nd person of God before the world was created, that they mistranslated, altered and changed Joh 17:5 to insert the trinity doctrine.
Trinitarians pretend to explain the Trinity by making Bible Jokes - bouncing back and forth - bouncing from one contradiction to the next, in their mis – translation - ONE MISTRANSLATED CONTRADICTION IS OVER - RIDDEN and CANCELED OUT = BY ANOTHER CONTRADICTION
the Trinitarian trick is to keep bouncing and to keep you bouncing. - Their Translation specifically was written to bounce contradictions off of one another and these endless contradictions are what builds and explains the Trinity for them.
How Can Trinitarians explain why that the only begotten Son of God and the “ Holy Spirit “ are never once mentioned anywhere in the manuscripts of the Old Testament ?
The Trinitarian Translations do not express or describe a Jesus existing " previously " as only a mere prophetic promise - to come in the future.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent:
if The Old Testament believers were worshiping the Godhead / trinity in a manner that was incorrect and false, how then did Jesus exist " previously " as only prophetic promise ?
The Translation is claiming that God had allowed people to incorrectly worship and disregard the true worship and teaching that - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit existed in three persons in GODHEAD / TRINITY
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent: - repent for incorrectly worshiping the Godhead / trinity .
How could someone mistakenly or falsely or disobediently worship and rebel against something that did not exist yet and never was revealed to them nor heard of ?
The Trinitarian Translation presents a second person who already pre existed - who is not coming OUT of God, but who already exists in heaven with God and is being re - positioned, re - located and moving from one existing position to another, who is being PROMOTED to be seated literally beside { AT or ON } the throne or AT - ON the right hand of God.
Yet the manuscripts says - sit ex / OUT OF my right -
while the Translation says sit AT / ON my right hand
here this pre – existing separate, distinct CO - Equal, CO - Eternal second person of God is being promoted and re - located, re – positioned as pre – existing and simply is relocating himself to exist " ON " or “ AT “ - beside the right hand side of the throne of the father.
Please remember - Yahoshua says three things here about his identity.
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT FOR FROM / OF - MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -
John 8:42
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -
εγω I AM - γαρ FOR - εκ OUT / FROM - του THE - θεου GOD - εξηλθον CAME OUT -
και AND - ηκω COME - ουδε NOT - γαρ FOR - απ FROM / OF - εμαυτου MYSELF - εληλυθα I COME - αλλ NEITHER - εκεινος MYSELF - με I - απεστειλεν SENT.
Meaning - Yahoshua was not a mere “ departing exiting FORM “ nor MORPH of his OWN pre - existence. - - Nor even a departed FORM or MORPH of his own self " himself. " as a separate pre-existing 2 nd person.
But truly the Trinity is completely in contradiction - BECAUSE - Yahoshua defines the terms in His message - by saying that He does nothing of His own self - saying that I can do nothing whatsoever of my own doing. - I do not have any power of miracles, of my own " I do not have a will of my own - I CANNOT DO anything, whatsoever - OF MY OWN ... Saying that it is the father only, that does the miracles and the works.
He has no power, no control, no miracles, no knowledge and there is no good, no honor, and no GOOD REPUTATION in Him. - as a distinct, separate individual CO EQUAL or CO ETERNAL SEPARATED DEITY OR PERSON.
Saying - why do you call me " good " ? -- " There is NO ONE good but God alone " - -
Every time He spoke of his own will, power, majesty and desire and purpose " We find that He denied the trinity doctrine- Yet at the same time, he and the scriptures declare that He was God Himself - He was from heaven, and He PRE EXISTED / ORIGINATED - in the bosom of the father and EXITED from { out from } the bosom of the father to sit in the RIGHT of God, until God's enemies are a footstool..
He came OUT of God's spirit and returns back to God's spirit - to sit IN the throne of GOD..... - because this is his spirit – The Holy Spirit - the only mediator.
The Word Made Flesh that will return back to sit in the throne of the Father and of the Lamb.
in the manuscripts, Jesus is - NOT BEING REVEALED AND SENT TO EARTH SIMPLY JUST BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT HE HAS BEEN PROMOTED, ENDORSED, AND RE – POSITIONED TO MOVE AND CHANGE HIS SEAT IN HEAVEN TO DWELL ON / AT THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE THRONE
But he is - BEING REVEALED AND SENT TO EARTH - by the fact that he is exiting OUT of God
sit ex / OUT OF my right -
THE ONLY QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR TRINITARIANS - IS SIMPLY THIS.
IF - The Bible says He is to sit / dwell - “ IN “ the right or “ AT “ the right hand of God - UNTIL - UNTIL such and such a time. = Dwell here - UNTIL - this time comes
or
If he was to be there ‘ until ‘ such a such and such a time, this means he was not always there. And after such and such a time passes - where will he again return regarding his original place ? I honestly just do not see how Trinitarians can answer this question and I have never received an answer from anyone who holds to the Trinity faith.
My question is simply this- - - WHY IS YAHASHUA CHANGING / ALTERING and MODIFYING and ADJUSTING / MORPHING and LOWERING and DECREASING and REDUCING HIMSELF -
WHY IS YAHASHUA becoming empty / void and vacant of existing as EQUALLY God and SUDDENDLY SUDDENLY CHANGING HIMSELF TO BECOME A SERVANT OF GOD
WHY IS YAHASHUA SUDDENLY CHANGED AND ALTERED TO THE POINT THAT HE NO LONGER EXISTS TO BE EQUAL TO GOD.
BUT HIMSELF, HE HAS SUDDENLY BECAME EMPTY / changed altered BECOME VOID OF EQUALITY TO GOD
CHANGING INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM THAT WHICH HE PRE EXISTED = CHANGING INTO BECOMING A SERVANT
He is changed and lowered into - THE MORPH OF A SERVANT, RECEIVING IN THE LIKENESS OF MANKIND, HE BECAME.
IF – Yahashua lowered himself - emptied himself - he CHANGED and ALTERED HIMSELF - BECOMING A SERVANT OF GOD
WHY - would he be lowering himself - why would he be ALTERING AND CHANGING HIMSELF TO BE CHANGED INTO A SERVANT OF GOD AND LESSER THAN GOD – changing to becoming a servant and obedient to the father
If this is who and what he already was ?
The Trinitarian Jesus was always obedient, subservient, submissive, controlled and commanded by his superior - the Father . why then is he changing himself ? emptying himself ? - being changed, altered and being made into this obedient servant, - why is he becoming what he already was - this who and what this 2 nd person already existed as, in the Trinity doctrine.
Last edited: