Could God use an iPhone?

[CTZonEdit]

Logic challenge.

If iPhones did not come into existence until 2007 would he have been able to use it before?
Or drive an automobile in say the year 1650?

 

[Mungo]

An interesting question.

There are two aspects to this:

1. The logic of being able to do some physical action before all the artefacts needed to perform the action are available.
I might know how to drive a car in terms of theoretical knowledge. But if there were no car to drive then I can’t actually drive a car.

2. God’s abilities to perform some physical action.
We say God is omnipotent – he can do anything. But that is not quite true.
He cannot do what is logically impossible (make a square circle), or what is contrary to his nature (sin).

Regarding God as spirit, using and iPhone or driving a car takes physical ability. You could argue that God could move a car along a road in the same way as he could move mountains but that is not what we mean by driving a car. So unless we redefine what we normally mean by using an iPhone or driving a car then the answer is no on two counts:

1. There is no iPhone to use or car to drive before the dates you specify.
2. God, being spirit cannot actually use an iPhone or drive a car in the normal meaning of those words.

That of course leaves out Jesus Christ. We could ask – could Jesus Christ have used an iPhone or drive a car when he was on earth? When Jesus became incarnate he laid aside his divinity (insofar as he could) – see Phil 2:6-7 so he had to learn as any human – to walk, read, use carpenter’s tools. On that basis he would have to learn to use an iPad or drive a car. But of course there were no iPhones to use or cars to drive.

 

[CoreIssue]

Of course God could. He foreknew all that would happen and be. He created the ability for it to happen. So all he would have to do is command a car and iphone to appear.

Mungo's argument is, in fact, illogical. It renders the meaning of omnipotent false.

God could in fact sin, but he will not because he chose to not.

And God can only do "some physical actions?" What is that claim based, sure not the Bible.

You have to understand the difference between "cannot do" and "will not do." God can do anything but will not do everything.

 

[Mungo]

Of course God could. He foreknew all that would happen and be. He created the ability for it to happen. So all he would have to do is command a car and iphone to appear.

Mungo's argument is, in fact, illogical. It renders the meaning of omnipotent false.

God could in fact sin, but he will not because he chose to not.

And God can only do "some physical actions?" What is that claim based, sure not the Bible.

You have to understand the difference between "cannot do" and "will not do." God can do anything but will not do everything.

This is not a biblical challenge but, according to the OP, a logic challenge.

I made two claims about God:
1. He cannot do what is logically impossible.
2. He cannot do what is contrary to his nature.

You dispute my example of the second point and I disagree with that. You did not attempt the first

Regarding the first.
Can God can make a square circle?
Can God make an object which is too heavy for God to lift?
Can God swear by a being greater than God?

Regarding the second.
Can God commit suicide - make himself cease to exist?
Can God swim?

But since you want to introduce the Bible it confirms there are things God cannot do.
Heb 6:13 tells us that God cannot swear by someone greater than himself.
Heb 6:18 tells us the it is impossible for God to lie.

 

[CoreIssue]

This is not a biblical challenge but, according to the OP, a logic challenge.

I made two claims about God:
1. He cannot do what is logically impossible.
2. He cannot do what is contrary to his nature.

You dispute my example of the second point and I disagree with that. You did not attempt the first

Logic requires the analysis of all relevant data and facts. God is not limited to human realities.

It was not stipulated in the question that God was to be limited to our understanding, powers, thinking, etc.

As for your verses, God sets conditions and limits upon himself that he will not violate, thus he cannot violate.

The spirit of Christ was, is and always shall be God. But, he set aside his authority to exercise those powers during his earthly life.

Satan knew that and thus tested him in the desert, because he knew within those limits set, Christ would not violate them.

You are thinking purely in human terms, which is illogical to do when dealing with God, who is beyond our comprehension and understanding.

 

[Mungo]

This is not a biblical challenge but, according to the OP, a logic challenge.

I made two claims about God:
1. He cannot do what is logically impossible.
2. He cannot do what is contrary to his nature.

You dispute my example of the second point and I disagree with that. You did not attempt the first

Logic requires the analysis of all relevant data and facts. God is not limited to human realities.

That is no answer and the OP said it was a logic challenge.

It was not stipulated in the question that God was to be limited to our understanding, powers, thinking, etc.

Irrelevant

As for your verses, God sets conditions and limits upon himself that he will not violate, thus he cannot violate.

Asserted without evidence

The spirit of Christ was, is and always shall be God. But, he set aside his authority to exercise those powers during his earthly life.

Satan knew that and thus tested him in the desert, because he knew within those limits set, Christ would not violate them.

Nothing to do with what I said

You are thinking purely in human terms, which is illogical to do when dealing with God, who is beyond our comprehension and understanding.

And you are thinking angelic thoughts then?

I notice that you have not attempted to answer my questions - because of course you cannot.

As usual you ignore the points you cannot answer and duck and dive around the rest.

 

[CoreIssue]

Your answer on the first part says it all. You simply rejected my answer without saying why it was wrong.

 

[Jessie]

absolutly he sure could!
I do think in 1650 he would have gotten some very odd looks with a car though LOL

God is everywhere and can do anything, I think we just cant comprehend what is before us
much less who and what he can do because he is who he is.

the heavens mathematical keeping it all together. wow! thats just one little thing....

 

[CTZonEdit]

Interesting responses.

What is most interesting is seeing how each of us views God.
Are we viewing God through our own humanity, or are we viewing God as he is from what the Bible reveals?

If God has always been, always known, and always understood everything before it even happens then I believe He most certainly could use and iPhone or drive a car anytime any where or any place.

Now could God make a square circle? Can something be what it is and be something else at the same time?

 

[CoreIssue]

Now could God make a square circle? Can something be what it is and be something else at the same time?

Getting very theoretical here.

One answer is the question is illogical, thus moot, per the laws of logic. But, of course that is for the human realm.

Another is looking a dimensional theory, I have seen models where a what is one shape in 3 dimensions contains multiple shapes as more dimensions are added.

But, of course, it is all guesswork for us and well above my pay grade.

There is so much we do not know. As in how do spirits, as Christ did, walk through walls?

All that tells us is God is not bound by the laws of physics so who are we to put limits on him?

 

[Jessie]

suprises me when people do put limits on God.

the things he has already created as awesome and intricate.