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Turning from the Truth

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
This does not mean, contrary to what some try to claim, loss of salvation.

It means those who learn the truth, know what it means, see it in operation around them, but still walk away to other thinking and beliefs have no hope left.

They have rejected Christ, the Gospel, the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and all else associated with the true God.

We see that everywhere today.

Science will answer it all for us. There is no one or nothing in control of me but myself. My reasoning and logic is impeccable.

Once you do that, what is there? Nothing but living a lie.
 
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Alter2Ego

New Member
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
This does not mean, contrary to what some try to claim, loss of salvation.

It means those who learn the truth, know what it means, see it in operation around them, but still walk away to other thinking and beliefs have no hope left.

They have rejected Christ, the Gospel, the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and all else associated with the true God.

We see that everywhere today.

Science will answer it all for us. There is no one or nothing in control of me but myself. My reasoning and logic is impeccable.

Once you do that, what is there? Nothing but living a lie.

CoreIssue:

The above quotation from Hebrews 6:4-6 speaks for itself. It clearly says regarding persons who learned spiritual truths and returned to their former ways: "it is IMPOSSIBLE for those. . . to be brought back to repentance."

Whenever it is "impossible" for someone to repent, that equates to loss of salvation.


Alter2Ego
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
It does not say they had repented. It says they have tasted, not eaten. Does not say they were born again, thus ave the Holy Spirit, not just shared in his works and blessings. They are enlightened, not changed.
Read Romans 8:
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
No room for going back here. Will be, not might be, from foreknew to glorified, which happens when Raptured/Resurrected, not before.

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k]">[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Nothing can take us from God once we are his. No exceptions.

There are a lot of those kind of people around.

Such a person was never saved.
 

Alter2Ego

New Member
It does not say they had repented. It says they have tasted, not eaten. Does not say they were born again, thus ave the Holy Spirit, not just shared in his works and blessings. They are enlightened, not changed.
Read Romans 8:
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
No room for going back here. Will be, not might be, from foreknew to glorified, which happens when Raptured/Resurrected, not before.

CoreIssue:

You mean it does not word it how YOU want it worded. The scriptural quotation from Hebrews 6 clearly indicates that the individuals had previously repented. Not only that it says it is IMPOSSIBLE to get them to repent again because they had been brought to spiritual truths and returned to their wrong doing. Notice your previous quotation
.

4 It is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be BROUGHT BACK back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

CLUE #1:
The expression "IMPOSSIBLE" is the first clue that such ones have no hope of salvation. It says it is impossible for them to repent.

CLUE #2:
The expression "BROUGHT BACK to repentance" speaks for itself. It indicates they previously repented.

The clues are right there for all to see. The individuals cannot be "brought back" to repentance. It has now become "impossible" for them to repent again. Why so? Because they were enlightened and turned away from the enlightenment aka deliberate sin.


Alter2Ego
 
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CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
Enlightened means to gain knowledge, nothing more:
Strong's Number: 5461 Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
fotizo from (5457)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Photizo 9:310,1293
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
fo-tid'-zo Verb
Definition
  1. to give light, to shine
  2. to enlighten, light up, illumine
  3. to bring to light, render evident
    1. to cause something to exist and thus come to light and become clear to all
  4. to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge
    1. to instruct, to inform, teach
    2. to give understanding to
Tasted, in the Greek means:
Strong's Number: 1089 Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
geuomai a root word
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Geuomai 1:675,117
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ghyoo'-om-ahee Verb
Definition
  1. to taste, to try the flavour of
  2. to taste
    1. i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy
    2. to feel, make trial of, experience
  3. to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat
Fallen away means:
Strong's Number: 3895 Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
parapipto from (3844) and (4098)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Parapipto 6:170,846
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
par-ap-ip'-to Verb
Definition
  1. to fall beside a person or thing
  2. to slip aside
    1. to deviate from the right path, turn aside, wander
    2. to error
    3. to fall away (from the true faith): from worship of Jehovah
Going back to Hebrews 4, let us expand the number of verses for full context:
Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
Now, look at this stated in a different way:


Matthew 13New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Sower
13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
Having tasted, gained knowledge, seen the reality around them and then turned away, it is indeed impossible for them to come back and repent.

No where in the passage does it say they were every saved or had repented. The verses make that very clear.

Obviously you have no experience with farming. I grew up on a farm.

Good soil will grow good crops when rained on, fertilized, etc.

You can fertilize and rain on bad soil all you want, the crops will either never sprout or sprout and dies in spite of being prepared properly.

The Holy Spirit can whisper in their ear and good people teach and witness to them. But if they will not accept and embrace the truth they have seen and been taught, there is nothing else left for them. They are doomed.
 

Mickeylittle

New Member
Jesus said once they are in my hand no one can pluck them out.

I agree with this. I know Hebrews 6:4-6 can be confusing, heck a lot of the Bible can be and I am certainly not a scholar! But we have to look at the Bible as a whole and so I want to add Matthew 7:21-23 and point out 2 things when looking at this short passage:

1) These were not pew sitters - They were doing mighty things in the name of Jesus
2) Key word in passage is in verse 23 "NEVER" - They didn't lose their salvation because they were never saved. Jesus didn't say I used to know you, He didn't say you have left your first love, no He said depart from me because I never knew you.

There are probably millions and millions of people on this planet who have said a pray for salvation just to escape from hell and all they really wanted was fire insurance. They were never interested in discipleship or becoming a bond servant of Christ's. It is those people that we would say have lost their salvation and that God would say no they didn't lose it because they never really had it in the first place.
 
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