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Is Jesus 'a god' or God?

Heather Frank

Advanced Poster
Yes, I can see that. One obvious feature of any serious church, is that Lucifer, who is clearly depicted in the Bible as having quite preexisted the creation of the word and man both, used to be an angel. Or to get technical pedantic and specific, he used to be an angel of light, but became an angel of darkness, meaning a demon. That is made pretty clear in quite a few places.
 

Heather Frank

Advanced Poster
My own problem with Russell, it's not religious. I did some historical research on his social milieu in New York during the Civil War. He was anti military to the point of being a seditionist, and lived in the America's primary point of immigrant entry. He was trying to take both locals and new arrivals away from the civil war.
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, I can see that. One obvious feature of any serious church, is that Lucifer, who is clearly depicted in the Bible as having quite preexisted the creation of the word and man both, used to be an angel. Or to get technical pedantic and specific, he used to be an angel of light, but became an angel of darkness, meaning a demon. That is made pretty clear in quite a few places.
Fallen Angels are never called demons and demons never called fallen Angels. Per Job fallen Angels are bound in the pit so they cannot be demons.
 

Heather Frank

Advanced Poster
Yes, I can see that. One obvious feature of any serious church, is that Lucifer, who is clearly depicted in the Bible as having quite preexisted the creation of the word and man both, used to be an angel. Or to get technical pedantic and specific, he used to be an angel of light, but became an angel of darkness, meaning a demon. That is made pretty clear in quite a few places.
Fallen Angels are never called demons and demons never called fallen Angels. Per Job fallen Angels are bound in the pit so they cannot be demons.
Really, when did that happen? I do know that Michael is mentioned in the Bible (war in heaven, Satan expelled), but I never quite cottoned on to where that occurs in the timeline. Most people say before the fall, Satan driven out, comes to Earth. Maybe, maybe not. When does this Satan going into the pit happen?
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
The Bible is quite clear. Satan and the fallen angels fell like meteorites on the earth. The signs of that fall are quite clear. God creates everything perfect, yet the sons of war are throughout the heavens. Just look at the moon, battled debris is called meteorites and asteroids, outer space is loaded with the debris. The fallen angels had heavenly domains that they abandoned.

Job says the fallen angels are chained in caves of darkness, the pit. The pit has more than one chamber. There is hell where the Angels were kept and paradise, where the Saints dwelt until the resurrection. The Dragon, Satan, stood before the woman, Israel, when she was ready to give birth to Jesus.

At the second coming Satan is bound and cast into the pit for a thousand years.

The AC is revealed at the rapture. He is indwelt by a demon, the demon of Alexander the great. The false prophet is indwelt by a demon that rises from the pit. Satan indwells the AOD. They are the false Trinity. The sixth bowl clearly states this indwelling.

The fallen angels are not mentioned from the war until the white throne judgment, where they are judged. Only the condemned are then judged and cast into the lake of fire. Saints are glorified and rewarded during the wedding feast, which lasts the seven years of the tribulation. It does not say how the millennial saints are handled. But it does say there will be another rapture at the end of time when the earth and heavens are destroyed and made a new.

While certain things are not laid out in the Bible everything we need to know is.
 
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Heather Frank

Advanced Poster
No, I haven't got any problem with that, I can see that really clearly. The part in the first chapter of the gospel of John talks about the Word being present at creation too, and the Word also predates the angelic spirits. The battle between good and evil or darkness and light is for control of the lower human and terrestrial creation, although obviously that does simplify matters a bit (there's more to this than war and peace).
The description of the JW's beliefs here is a bit murky, though. The angels were actually present and witnessed creation, now what are the "Bible Students" doing in their research? Is there a prophecy aspect, are they going to have visions and share in the angels position of having witnessed at creation, or what? Because it sounds like their making a cosmic court case of the thing, is it some king of God on trial paradigm here, are they going to witness on behalf or God's character? And in what way to this link to the trial by Pontius Pilate.
 

Heather Frank

Advanced Poster
Read the link, the Hebrew is literally defined in the OT. It is literally true. The Bible is quite clear the Angels were created before because they were witness to the creation of the earth. Read the link.
That's nice. By the way, you still haven't told me which version you study from. Where did you take Hebrew? I've met a lot of multi version, fluently multi lingual people myself who collect Bibles, usually including apocryphal material and alleges scriptures from other near eastern cultures. By the way, I'm not Israeli or middle eastern myself, I'm white. And the Bible coming to the British Isles didn't change real reality, it just opened up a previously insular race to outside influences.
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
I prefer the New International Version and the New American Standard Bible. The Bible was written by Hebrews within their culture. So it doesn't matter what other cultures say, the Bible does not change. The books of the Apocrypha are not scriptures.
 

Heather Frank

Advanced Poster
I prefer the New International Version and the New American Standard Bible. The Bible was written by Hebrews within their culture. So it doesn't matter what other cultures say, the Bible does not change. The books of the Apocrypha are not scriptures.
Yes they are. The word script means written document. Which ones are sacred or true or of significance to you personally is the question.
 
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