• We strive to be a place where there can be honest discussion, debate and fellowship. The rules are few so you can speak your mind. We know we are living in tough times and we hope to share answers and help with each other. Please join us.

In your view, what was/is the core theme of the Old Testament?

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
Promise of salvation by the future blood of Christ.
That is not in scriptures, but the opposite and moral sure is.

Here is what Jesus taught.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Punishing the innocent instead of the guilty, salvation by Jesus, is something Jesus never taught.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
The world is full of Socialist calling themselves Christians but they fail the test .
All fail, if you are talking the standard Jesus himself set in the bible.

Not that that Roman creation ever really lived.

The more Greek Chrestian Jesus that Christianity plagiarized might have live as the Nazarene though.

Where have you seen a true Socialist country with a flat socioeconomic demographic pyramid?

I have never seen such a nation.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
One has to learn the difference between spiritual and physical. We live in both worlds, each impacting the other.
Those, spiritual and physical, and the more harmful supernatural thinking.

IOW, garbage thinking.

I do agree that we should stop using male spiritual thinking to control physical female sexuality.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
Jesus died for your sins is exactly why he came. Yes there were politics and religious corruption. But by far was the simple nature of sinful man inherited from Adam. To pay for those sins a perfect man had to die in our place.
Stop lying or start quoting.

Watch how it is done.

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.



Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.



Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
You do not understand salvation. It requires faith and surrender to God per the Gospel. No one is saved by Law or works.
Would you surrender to a lesser genocidal St. Hitler, or do you have to put Yahweh's name above all genocidal pricks?

Perhaps it is your understanding that is defective, given the satanic God you idol worship.

Do you teach your children to ride any other scapegoat?

Do you recommend we do?

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
The Holy Spirit shed his own blood to save all whom will accept the CORE THEME OF THE OLD TESTAMENT and pursue - A SPIRITUAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE LORD YAHASHUA THE ANOINTING .
Where in the O.T is Jesus, --- LORD YAHASHUA THE ANOINTING to you,--- spoken of?

Fun fact. Jesus was never anointed to Christ.

Regards
DL
 

jdyson

restricted access
I began by reading the New Testament which is full of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus taught us how to be kind to others, as in the stranger but most of all Jesus used the Book of Ezekiel, the third of the Latter Prophets in the Tanakh and one of the major prophetic books in the Old Testament. It records six visions of the prophet Ezekiel, exiled in Babylon, during the 22 years from 593 to 571 BC.

The visions, and the book, are structured around three themes: (1) Judgment on Israel (chapters 1–24); (2) Judgment on the nations (chapters 25–32); and (3) Future blessings for Israel (chapters 33–48). Its themes include the concepts of the presence of God, purity, Israel as a divine community, and individual responsibility to God.

Book of Ezekiel - Wikipedia

During this period Jerusalem was under the rule of the Romans which the local community strongly rejected.
More famous Jewish teachers come from Galilee than anywhere else in the world. They were known for their great reverence for Scripture and the passionate desire to be faithful to it. This translated into vibrant religious communities, devoted to strong families, their country, whose synagogues echoed the debate and discussions about keeping the Torah. They resisted the pagan influences of Hellenism far more than did their Judean counterparts. When the great revolt against the pagan Romans and their collaborators (66-74 AD) finally occurred, it began among the Galileans.
That the World May Know | Rabbi and Talmidim
in Palestine there were a number of occasions when more restless elements in the population resisted Roman abuses and followed the tradition of “zealousness for the Law.”
under the Romans (ruled 37-4 B.C.E.). Herod surrounded himself with Greek scholars and undertook many building projects, including a magnificent and fortified palace. He rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem.
Before he died, Jesus of Nazareth was born.

Life for the Jews under the procurators was exceedingly difficult. This protrait is confirmed by the Jewish historian Josephus who chronicled a number of events that provoked the Jews under Pilate and other procurators, leading to riots, beatings, and executions.

The last procurators in particular were indifferent to Jewish religious sensibilities; and various patriotic groups, to whom nationalism was an integral part of their religion, succeeded in polarizing the Jewish population and bringing on the first war with Rome in 66. The climax of the war, as noted earlier, was the destruction of the Temple in 70, though, according to Josephus, Titus sought to spare it.

Bar Kokhba Revolt, also called Second Jewish Revolt, (132–135 CE), Jewish rebellion against Roman rule in Judaea. The revolt was preceded by years of clashes between Jews and Romans in the area.

Bar Kokhba Revolt | History & Facts | Britannica
The history of the Jews in the Roman Empire
Rebellion in Judaea

Although Judaea was ruled by the Romans, the governors there had practiced the same kind of religious tolerance as was shown to Jews in Rome.

In 66 AD, this discontent exploded into open rebellion. Four years later, the Roman army had crushed the revolt, but had also destroyed the temple. The sacred treasures were seized and shown off in a procession through the streets of Rome.
The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Jews In Roman Times | PBS

The history of Palestine is the study of the past in the region of Palestine, defined as the territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.
In the late 2nd century BCE, the semi-independent Hasmonean kingdom conquered most of Palestine but the kingdom gradually became a vassal of Rome, which annexed Palestine in 63 BCE. Roman rule was troubled by Jewish rebellions, which Rome answered with by destroying the Jews' temple.

History of Palestine - Wikipedia

The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. According to the canonical gospels Jesus was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin, and then sentenced by Pontius Pilate to be scourged, and finally crucified by the Romans.

Collectively referred to as the Passion, Jesus' suffering and redemptive death by crucifixion are the central aspects of Christian theology concerning the doctrines of salvation and atonement.
Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

In the canonical gospels, Pilate's court refers to the trial of Jesus in praetorium before Pontius Pilate, preceded by the Sanhedrin Trial. In the Gospel of Luke, Pilate finds that Jesus, being from Galilee, belonged to Herod Antipas' jurisdiction, and so he decides to send Jesus to Herod. After questioning Jesus and receiving very few replies, Herod sees Jesus as no threat and returns him to Pilate.
In all four gospels, the Denial of Peter functions as an intermission during the Sanhedrin trial, while Matthew adds an intermission during the trial before Pilate that narrates the suicide of Judas Iscariot.
At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. From the three charges brought by the Pharisees leaders (perverting the nation, forbidding the payment of tribute, and sedition against the Roman Empire), Pilate picks up on the third one, asking: "Are you the King of the Jews?". Jesus replies with "You have said so". Then the hearing continues, and Pilate finally asks Jesus "What is truth?". This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge. [Jn. 18:36]


Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia
Early in the morning the chief priests and elders planned to have Jesus executed.

Thirty pieces of silver was the price for which Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, according to an account in the Gospel of Matthew 26:15 in the New Testament. Before the Last Supper, Judas is said to have gone to the chief priests and agreed to hand over Jesus in exchange for 30 silver coins, and to have attempted to return the money afterwards, filled with remorse.
Pilate explained the amnesty vote and asked: 'Do you want me to release 'the king of the Jews'?'
They shouted back: 'No, not him! Give us Barabbas!' Narrator explains Barrabas.
Pilate had Jesus flogged. Soldiers put a crown of thorns and purple robe on Jesus, hit his face and mocked him saying: 'Hail, king of the Jews!'
Pilate, outside, repeated his not guilty verdict and presented Jesus: 'Here is the man!'
Chief priests and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'
Pilate, afraid, interrogated Jesus inside. Jesus: 'You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.' Pilate tried to set Jesus free.


Jewish leaders [Rabbis]: 'If you let him go, you disobey Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.'
Pilate brought out Jesus around noon, saying: 'Here is your king.' They shouted: 'Take him away, crucify him!'
Pilate: 'Shall I crucify your king?' Chief priests: 'We have no king but Caesar.'
Pilate handed Jesus over to them for crucifixion.


Early in the morning Jesus was taken to Pilate by the Jewish leaders, who refused to enter the praetorium to stay ceremonially clean for Passover.
Pilate came out and asked them why. They said only Pilate could apply the death penalty.
Pilate, inside: 'Are you the king of the Jews?' Jesus: 'My kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would have fought to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders.'
Pilate: 'You are a king, then!' Jesus: 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.' Pilate: 'What is truth?'


Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body) (NOTE: the Jewish leaders were Rabbis) following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to the trial before Pontius Pilate.

Jesus is generally quiet, does not mount a defense, and rarely responds to the accusations, and is found guilty of various offenses: violating the Sabbath law (by healing on the Sabbath), threatening to destroy the Jewish Temple, practicing sorcery, exorcising people by the power of demons, and claiming to be the Messiah. He is then taken to Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, to be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews.

Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

Jewish tradition and texts portray the Sanhedrin to be an established court [all of them were rabbis], based in Jerusalem with strict guidelines on how to function.
Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders
[Rabbis] ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorities.

In conclusion, after reviewing all the available written facts concerning Jesus Christ, I find overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins but was murdered by the Romans, at the request of the local Rabbis in Jerusalem and in return, the revolt against the Roman occupation would stop.

After reviewing all the evidence, I could find, the above is my conclusion.
Agree with it or disagree-?
 

Willy

Pro Poster
I began by reading the New Testament

Not likely, … if you did you missed a few verses, chapters, themes, doctrine of any kind, the love of God, the purpose of God, the depravity of man, to name just a few …

Your God is Wikipedia, Britannica, and virtually any secular source that you can find to deflect what God, in mercy has done to give you life. That amazes me, … how can a person reject so great a love, … ??

Who are you?
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
Jesus Christ did not die for our sins
I agree.

His teachings and just plain old morals would forbid it.

I wrote this to remind Christians of what Jesus taught on substitutional punishment.

-----

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
I began by reading the New Testament

Not likely, … if you did you missed a few verses, chapters, themes, doctrine of any kind, the love of God, the purpose of God, the depravity of man, to name just a few …

Your God is Wikipedia, Britannica, and virtually any secular source that you can find to deflect what God, in mercy has done to give you life. That amazes me, … how can a person reject so great a love, … ??

Who are you?

Who are you, who can see love in a God who can cure as easily as kill, yet always kills.

Post 33 asks you about Jesus and how you must sin to be saved.

Care to speak to your immorality?

Regards
DL
 

Willy

Pro Poster
I began by reading the New Testament

Not likely, … if you did you missed a few verses, chapters, themes, doctrine of any kind, the love of God, the purpose of God, the depravity of man, to name just a few …

Your God is Wikipedia, Britannica, and virtually any secular source that you can find to deflect what God, in mercy has done to give you life. That amazes me, … how can a person reject so great a love, … ??

Who are you?

Who are you, who can see love in a God who can cure as easily as kill, yet always kills.

Post 33 asks you about Jesus and how you must sin to be saved.

Care to speak to your immorality?

Regards
DL

Ha ha ha …

Go at it … you two were meant for each other …

:laugh:
 

Willy

Pro Poster
I began by reading the New Testament

Not likely, … if you did you missed a few verses, chapters, themes, doctrine of any kind, the love of God, the purpose of God, the depravity of man, to name just a few …

Your God is Wikipedia, Britannica, and virtually any secular source that you can find to deflect what God, in mercy has done to give you life. That amazes me, … how can a person reject so great a love, … ??

Who are you?

Who are you, who can see love in a God who can cure as easily as kill, yet always kills.

Post 33 asks you about Jesus and how you must sin to be saved.

Care to speak to your immorality?

Regards
DL

1 John 1:1-10

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 

jdyson

restricted access
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezekiel

Chapter 21

1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,

3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.

22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.

23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.

24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

28 And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering:

29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.

30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.

31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.

32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access
You are all so afraid of looking at what Jesus taught about who dies for our sins.

Moral Cowards die many deaths.

Someone does not want to grow into adulthood.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Advanced Poster
restriced access

This is the most important in terms of salvation. Right?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Regards
DL
 
Top