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Heather Frank

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Heather Frank

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At any rate, I just wanted to talk about invocation. An invocation is a type of speech. To say a prayer out loud, whether in public or in private is an invocation. In keeping with the movement of Mars in Holst's symphony. I'll offer you an example. First made by an Italian in Christian times, and also said in English quite often, the Oratory to the Archangel Michael.

I'll type it for you first in the original Italian.

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio,
contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur:
tuque, Princeps militiae caelestis,
Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos,
qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo,
divina virtute, in infernum detrude. Amen.
 
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CoreIssue

CoreIssue

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What it means in other languages and cultures is not relevant to Bible study. What is relevant is the time and culture in which God spoke, the prophets and apostles wrote and how it was understood then. Such as Christ nailed through the hands. In English understanding it does not work because the hand cannot support a body. But in Greek it includes the wrist which can support the body. As well but most picture a cross as is not what the Romans did. They impaled people on a pole, as understood in the Greek.

So all your references to Latin, etc, are of no value.
 
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Heather Frank

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CoreIssue said:
What it means in other languages and cultures is not relevant to Bible study. What is relevant is the time and culture in which God spoke, the prophets and apostles wrote and how it was understood then. Such as Christ nailed through the hands. In English understanding it does not work because the hand cannot support a body. But in Greek it includes the wrist which can support the body. As well but most picture a cross as is not what the Romans did. They impaled people on a pole, as understood in the Greek.

So all your references to Latin, etc, are of no value.
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False. What you have against the fact that I speak Italian, which you don't, is that my studies cause me to have knowledge about English history which you want to remain hidden for reasons of politics. You think that you know something in Greek, but unfortunately for you, you know no more Greek than I do.
 
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Heather Frank

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CoreIssue said:
Italians Don't Speak Latin. Ancient Bible languages are not spoken today. https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2012/06/what-was-the-original-language-of-the-bible/
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"Italians don't speak Latin?" That's absolutely absurd. You saying that is like me saying that is like me saying you don't speak English. Your assertion is based on the fact that during WWII, axis Italy rewrote some of its history. You had to have understood what Nazism was to have known that. Wheelock's was published in 1956, the grammar in it is exactly the same as modern English grammar. The course focuses on original classical writings. The people who published it wanted to set people whose first language is English straight on histories, just to give a very well-known example, the histories written by Will Durant are false.

Italian is Latin. Everyone in modern Italy speaks Latin, and it's exactly the same Latin that Jesus Christ spoke.

All the ancient Biblical languages are still spoken. People in Greece still speak Greek. People in Iseral still speak Hebrew.
 
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Heather Frank

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Anyway, as I was saying about languages, the principal problem in modern theological discourse in the American English language is linguistics. Coded linguistics are replacing Hermeneutics and Exegesis. It's become a spelling game, and a sounding out phonics game, it's a "spelling bee". And that's the problem. Either you or I might be able to learn to speak Italian. The matter is comprehending the meaning. For example, the prayer of Leo the Thirteenth is an invocation. The English word for invocation is soliloquy. When MacBeth and Hamlet speak alone in productions of their plays, they have soliloquies.
 
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Heather Frank

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I speak Latin.

In principio creavit Deus caelum et terram.
Terra autem erat inianis et vacua, et tenebrae errant super faciem abyssi: et spiritus Dei ferebatur super aquas.
Dixitque Deus: Fiat lux. Et facta est lux.

Any questions?
 
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Heather Frank

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Good. I'll move on.

Et vidit Deus lucem quod esset bona: et divisit lucem a tenebris.

Our Latin this evening is about God.

Dixitque Deus means "God spoke",
and Et vidit Deus means "and God saw."

Everybody understand? Deus means God, not duce or two as in a hand at the poker table. Dixitque means spoke, not dock in the Confederate States. And Et vidit means God saw, not "people eat with their eyes", as some illiterate local line cooks claim that it does.
 
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Heather Frank

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CoreIssue isn't a Roman anyway, so I'll just carry-on speaking Latin since it's nothing to do with CoreIssue.

Appellavitque lucem Diem, et tenebras Notem: factumque est vesperce et mane, deus unus.
 
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Heather Frank

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Dixit quoque Deus: fiat firmamentum in medio aquarum: et dividat aquas ab aquis.
Et fecit Deus firmamentum, divisitque aquas, quae erant sub firmamento, ab his, quae erant super firmamnetum. Et factum est ita.
Vocavitque Deus firmamentum, Caelum: et factum est vespere et mane, dies secundus.
Dixit vero Deus: Congregentur aque, quae sub caelo sunt, in locum unum: et arida. Et factum est ita.
Et vocavit Deus aridam Terram, congregationesque aquarum appellavit Maria. Et vidit Deus quod esset bonum.
 
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Heather Frank

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Contrary to what Corral Sue says, almost everyone can speak at least SOME Latin. For example, the German composer Carl Orff composed a symphony about the ugly Napoleonic Wars, and the music illustrates how the French general murdered his loyal countrymen. Contained in the Cramina Brurana (Songs of the Burning Word, Burning Times, or as the Greek has it Hades), is the Catholic Roman song O Fortuna. O Fortuna is a song about being Italian in the Hell of Napoleonic internationalism. Napoleon was an atheist. The French soldier was stupid, he thought that Jesus Christ was the only God who had ever been known. But the loyal German Carl Orff was more intelligent. He knew that the nations had thought of God before the conversion and called God by other names in their own languages and known even before the birth of Jesus Christ that there was a God who had made individual people special, and their noble families special, and their nations individual and unique.

 
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