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Unconditional Love?

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by CTZonEdit, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. CTZonEdit

    CTZonEdit Site Administrator Staff Member

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    Liberal thinking has exploded in the past decade due in part to the promotion of relativism.
    Whats good for you is good for you and whats good for me is good for me and nobody get hurt.

    What is bothersome is this continued liberalization spews over when studying the bible and Christianity itself.

    Some people think God loves everyone. His love is unconditional. Everyone will earn God's grace because they are 'seeking' and trying to be good. God will understand.

    Really?

    If His love is unconditional why did He send Christ to to die in order to fix our condition?
     
  2. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree the liberal thinkers have muddied this issue.

    God loves everyone, even Satan. But God is every bit as just as he is loving. So he holds all accountable and will send them to Hell and the Lake.

    He loves us but hates and will not tolerate sin.

    Love and justice are two sides of the same coin.
     
  3. CTZonEdit

    CTZonEdit Site Administrator Staff Member

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    I think people miss the part where there is in fact a condition, something we must do, in order for us to receive God's grace and mercy.

    It doesn't just apply to everyone by magic.
     
    CoreIssue likes this.
  4. Michael B Casteel

    Michael B Casteel New Member

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    In my opinion (like everyone else, I have lots of them) in order to understand "unconditional love" Christians must understand the gospel of the kingdom. Everyone who's confession is Christ is granted eternal salvation, but not everyone who is granted salvation will participate in the first resurrection: The royal priesthood of Christ! If you want to know what I know, check out my Facebook page.
     
  5. Michael B Casteel

    Michael B Casteel New Member

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    I wanted to ask a question but am not sure where I do that. So I will stick it here for now. Do Christians know that Paul did not believe in the Virgin birth, nor did he acknowledge Christ's in born divinity? Since Paul's epistles were the first New Testament writings----even before the gospel of Mark....just saying.
     
  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, all who are saved are part of the First Resurrection. The Second is for the damned.

    There is not such thing as a special Royal Priesthood within the Church.

    And I know you are trying to sell books.

    Most assuredly, after conversion and salvation, Paul believed in the Virgin birth. Before he was a devout Pharisee.
     
  7. Michael B Casteel

    Michael B Casteel New Member

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    You know what your real problem is brother. You seem to be looking, but it's really hard to shake the anger when you enter the sanctification process later than in infancy. I know you. I have been you on steroids partner, and I have to really work at it every day and all the time. You are regurgitating old and flawed theological theories. The selling books comment (obviously placed in there so you could vent and hopefully get an argument going; isn't going to work. Two reasons: You're going the wrong way, and I don't care what you think.
     
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, I don't see any Bible proof for what you have claimed. All I see is personal attack.

    Post some verses and we can take it from there.
     
  9. Michael B Casteel

    Michael B Casteel New Member

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    Given that Paul was the apostle most strongly associated with the gospel of grace, he makes curious statements all through his letters. He describes himself as running, fighting, beating his body, straining, pressing on toward the "goal", and trying to obtain and take hold of a prize. Do you really think that Paul was doing all this to earn his eternal salvation? Either the Bible contradicts itself on issues of central importance, or the Christian community has made a critical error in how it interprets and teaches the gospel. This is not about " selling books", this is about explaining the gospel of the kingdom of God to the church. If doctrine were an orchestra, then a theologian would be the solo violinist. I have been dealing with people just like you for years. My job was to deliver the message, I could care less what you do with it buddy.
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Paul was dedicated to the Gospel. He already had salvation. All he could add was rewards. But, you only get rewards for serving Christ, not trying to earn them for their sake.

    And I have been studying for over 50 years. And active for decades.

    Now, how about stop throwing mud and offering some meat, as in proof?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  11. Willy

    Willy Pro Poster

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    Michael,

    All you need to do is post the bible verses along with your comments. How hard is that?

    Then at least we have a reference to start a conversation.
     
  12. Michael B Casteel

    Michael B Casteel New Member

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    OK..I

    Willy--I have tried to explain to Christians for years and years that theology is not and never can be a sort of verse by verse (tossing at one another like hand grenades) "discussion". That sir is called doctrinal development.
    Today the church is smothered in the deceptions of Catholicism and Protestantism's doctrine--AND--the world is filled with the roar of---an orchestra of NOISE! It is extremely difficult under those conditions to hear a solo violinist: He is the theologian, and when his note and harmony are perfectly synchronized to the music sheet he is reading: It is a most beautiful thing to those who hear him.
    Let me give you one of the many obvious deceptions being perpetrated on you buddy.
    In 1Corinthians 9:24 and Philippians 3:12-14, Paul describes himself as, running, beating his body, straining, pressing on toward the "goal", and trying to obtain and take hold of a prize. Given that Paul is the apostle most closely and strongly associated with the doctrine of grace----Let me ask you to use some common sense----do you really believe Paul was doing this for his eternal salvation? Because if you do, I have a really great World War I German tank I'll let you have for a little less than 10 million.
    And what was Jesus talking about in Mark 10:13-15? Jesus can't be stating that we can never get our eternal salvation; that would make absolutely no sense whatsoever! And in Mathew 11:11-12 what was Jesus talking about. I mean if the "kingdom of heaven" signifies the same thing as eternal salvation; then this is an exceedingly strange remark. How exactly might "forceful men"---some translations read "violent men" lay hold of their eternal salvation?
    What Jesus and Paul are explaining here is something that is achievable by what in the tradition parlance are called "works", as opposed to salvation, which is a free gift of grace.
    Christians throughout the world therefore must face this stark FACT: The Bible either contradicts itself on an issue of central importance or the church---in a larger sense meaning the Christian community has made a critical error in how it interprets and teaches the gospel. In short my friend, the whole world--- including Christianity has been deceived, and I prove it!
    However, when I try to warn the church-- I get accused of being a religious nut case, a fanatic, "Jerk is just trying to sell books" (I get that mean spirited remark from a lot of you Christians) I get banned from every Bible "study" from every church in the area in which I live, I get kicked out of Facebook "Bible study" groups, I get laughed at and shunned when I occasionally attend communion. (don't go very often- every time the Pastor sees me, he has a look like he's going to soil himself) and members of my own family; not only do not support me, but avoid me.
    You know what...I don't care what any man thinks of me, I care what God thinks of me.
    Deleted - No Advertising - CoreIssue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2016
  13. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    You missed a another alternative. That being you are wrong.

    You are not approaching the Bible using full context or even trying to harmonize a topic with the rest of what is said in the Bible. That is an excuse to for personal opinion, not Bible reality.
     
  14. Michael B Casteel

    Michael B Casteel New Member

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    I'm not going to get sucked into a biblical discussion with someone of your intellectual capacity.
     
  15. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Fine with me. But, let me make it it clear, you are not going to be allowed to preach.
     

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