1. We strive to be a place where there can be honest discussion, debate and fellowship. The rules are few so you can speak your mind. We know we are living in tough times and we hope to share answers and help with each other. Please join us.
    Dismiss Notice

The Relationship of Husband and Wife

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by CoreIssue, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    An area that plays a role in almost everyone's life is marriage. Yet, it is one of the most personal, private, potentially embarrassing and controversial areas to talk about. Especially since it involves sex.

    Yet, it should not be. The Bible is very clear on what is covered in this thread.

    Therefore, time to talk about it. So, we need to get some historical context.
    Helper, not co-authority or power.

    This is not a statement that wives are dumb, not to be listened to or anything of the sort. Proverbs 31:10-31 has nothing but praise of a God fearing wise wife. It says a man who has such is truly blessed.

    Are there stupid men in the world? Far too many. Even among Christians? Sadly so.

    But does that change what the Bible says about marriage? No.

    Moving on we now look at what the Bible says next about the relationship between a husband and wife:
    Note Genesis 2:24 is a statement of monogamy (one husband and one wife). Polygamy (one husband and more than one wife) first appeared in Genesis 4:19.

    Understanding polygamy was an accepted reality in those ancient days, we look at marriage in ancient Israel.

    God had no Law on the earth other than Conscience. So, incest and polygamy were not actually prohibited. But, even with that, monogamy was the most common form of marriage, followed by polygamy.

    With the Mosaic Law came strict prohibition of incest.

    Polygamy was tolerated, but with study of the Bible you can see God did not promote it or favor it. He did heavily regulate it.

    Marriage was highly structured in Israel. The Jewish Wedding Custom shows marriage back then did not resemble marriage today. While a bride had to accept the groom with the consent of her father, the groom had to buy her from her father.

    She, and all her property belonged to the husband, technically.

    The second way a woman could become a wife is if she were a slave and they had sex. Mosaic Law says he had to marry her.

    Again, slavery is another area where it was accepted, but not God endorsed. Mosaic Law encouraged all to seek freedom, legally.

    It sounds cold, but as with all such things it was frequently far more complicated. Husbands loved their wives and wives they husbands. They took care of each other, but, it was always understood and accepted he was the head of the house and the final say.

    You also see in the Bible where women went to men who could take care of them and offered themselves as wives when there was no family for her, etc.

    Just saying here do not think the issues of marriage, sex, etc were all the man taking advantage of women. You would be very wrong. Humans were and remain humans.

    Moving on to New Testament, what does the Bible say about marriage? It says the men are to be loving, understanding, gentle and caring for their wives. It says the wives are to loving, understanding, gentle and caring for their husbands. It says the husband is the head of the house and wives are to be submissive to him.

    Right there is a trigger for a lot of resistance, even among Christians. But that is what the Bible says.

    Let the Bible speak for itself. There are many verses throughout the Bible on this topic. Here are some stating it most clearly:
    Another reality, which is being acknowledge by more and more of the feminist of the world, is biology. They want to be dominated during sex.

    Secular research has shown most women want strong men who can take the lead, even if only when things get rough. A lot will argue this point, but it is a reality.

    Medical research has also found during sex men's drive become more aggressive and dominating. But, women become more passive, receptive and obedient.

    Clearly, God built the roles of husband and wife into us. Just like he put in the Law of Conscience, it is there and not to be ignored without suffering very negative consequences; personally, family and culturally.

    We see a clear evolution of marriage throughout history. What you do not see changing is God's plan for marriage is monogamy, love, caring and meeting sexual needs with the husband as the head of the house and the wife being submissive to him in that role.

    That does not mean the wife has no rights or opinions, but it does mean the husband has the final say. It is a mutually respectful relationship, but you cannot have two “Chiefs” and no “Indians.”

    This opens the door for other issues and conversations to follow, both on this topic and related ones.
     
  2. roman8

    roman8 Advanced Poster

    Messages:
    74
    Gender:
    Female
    I have no problem with the structure and roles that God has ordained.
    But from my experience so far I see very little preaching or teaching to men on how to "love their wives as Christ loves the church.
    Many women are forced into taking a dominant role because their husbands simply will not lead the family, not hard for women to do because it our nature to do that. It would not be that difficult for a women to submit to a husband if he was following Christ , if they loved there wives , cared, protected and provided for, even with our nature to rule, it would be easier to be submissive.
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    It is difficult, no doubt about it. Falling Away from the teachings and living principles of being a Christian are dominating our culture, sadly.

    The only thing I disagree with is women having a nature to rule. I believe they have a nature to protect and guide.

    While they resemble each other, they are different.

    God didn't make husbands and wives to fight with each other and fail to give support. But we see it everywhere today.
     
  4. roman8

    roman8 Advanced Poster

    Messages:
    74
    Gender:
    Female
    I have nothing but respect for you Core, But I believe that Gen 3:16 does not mean a sexual desire for husbands , I don't see how that is a curse on the women. But I do believe that it is about a type of control. Im not alone in that belief . I copied a bit from a John McArthur sermon, there are many others as well. also being a woman I can speak from experience that submission is something I need to work at everyday .


    Now let's look at the specific of the language here that expresses the conflict. "Your desire shall be for your husband." Now let's talk about the word "desire." What does it mean? It's an interesting word, it comes from an Arabic root and I have continued to survey this passage because it's been a passage of some controversy. But it is of Arabic root meaning to seek control. Literally it could read, "You shall seek control over your husband...you will desire to exert your will," that is a sign of the curse, "you will desire to take charge, to be in control, to master." And that desire shows up in various women in various ways. In some of them it's a quiet, silent desire that smolders, with others it is a shouting desire that isn't much of a secret to anybody. And the more godless women are, very often the more hostile they are toward men. Sometimes that hostility takes the attitude of coldness, indifference, apathy. Because she can't achieve what she wants, she eventually becomes totally indifferent and apathetic toward the man.
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    I didn't say sexual only, since there is far more to marriage than sex. But to say it isn't a very important aspect is contradictory to human nature and the Bible.

    The NT says it is better not to marry but if there is need for sex one should marry.

    As for the word meaning:
    The original root word is:
    Extreme desire is exactly what it means.

    Sorry, but it isn't from the Arabic language. Both the Arabic and Aramaic (Hebrew) are descended from the Semitic language. They are siblings, Hebrew is not sibling to Arabic.

    Digging through translations I found the New English Translation and New Living Translation agreed with you. None of the others did, including Jewish translations.

    Searching the Internet seemed to confirm these are the only two that do so.

    They are terrible translations, full of errors.

    I agree women often have a tendency to try to take control, just as Eve misled Adam. I agree that as husbands can struggle submitting to God as wives struggle submitting to their husbands.

    That does not change the realities I pointed out. It does add the dimension of the struggle we have as humans on desire vs right vs ego and other destructive elements of sin nature. In fact, it ties in with another issue I have been debating to get into.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  6. 2404

    2404 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    I think a lot of the issue revolves around the service being a necessity to our calling. I think this shows that we are not quite there yet. If our service, what ever station we find ourselves in, was a result of the Word living in us then the earthly implications would't be a factor.
     
  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    The earthly realities are inescapable. Adam and Eve had sex when sin and death entered their lives, along with knowledge of good and evil.

    We die and it takes sex to keep the world populated. Sex requires strong enough desire to overcome our resistance to it. We loose.

    Our sin nature gets into even our sex drives as it does into everything else.

    At the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which all believers receive, our spirits are cleansed. But, our bodies are still sin driven and won't be cleansed until the Rapture.

    Then we will not have a sex drive, will not marry, etc. But neither will their be any more physical death.

    Until then, we are stuck with the war between our two natures. As Paul says he looses that war someway every day, as we all do.
     
  8. 2404

    2404 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    True enough I don't think anyone expects perfection in the flesh but if we are willing to be led by the Holy Spirit then we have no problems with the Word.
     
  9. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    Not quite sure what you mean, here. If you mean "Word," as in being Christ, I agree. If you mean accepting the Bible, we can do so but it a struggle to live up to.

    There are those who believe we can, and that is called Entire Sanctification, a totally false teaching, since we cannot achieve it even short term,

    Our flesh always gets in the way, even if only in little ways.
     
  10. 2404

    2404 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    I understand that we can't keep the letter but the Word in us makes us perfect through the attonement.
    As for the Word being Christ - that gets into the God head...
     
  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    Only our spirits, not our flesh. We have two natures, not one. They both function in our lives, not just one.
    The Word is just the Second Person of the Godhead, not the Father and Holy Spirit as well.
     

Share This Page