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Question on God, Consequences, Beliefs and Avoiding the Questions

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by CoreIssue, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    In your estimation, why are people, in general, avoiding serious religious discussion? Why are they uncomfortable with absolutes? Why do they think God just says believe something and it is good enough?

    I believe those are important questions individuals should be able the answer. If not, they should be concerned about consequences. Even in this worldly life, there are consequences to actions, so why would that change with God?

    It is a good question and one worthy of discussion.
     
  2. pnwcowboy

    pnwcowboy New Member

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    People want God out because he holds them accountable, u take God out of schools lets say and they think his rules go with. They are tired of feeling ashamed for their wrong doings and think if hes gone they can do as they please. But they dont have control over his love. Its the commandments that condemn them not God, God is Love not condemnation they had a bad run in with some "religious" people and they drew their own conclusions. This is an easy question because ive been there done that and i know why i hid, i know why i didnt allow the truth to come in. Satan wants us to hide from God so we never learn who he really is and so we never except what great things he has for us.
     
  3. pnwcowboy

    pnwcowboy New Member

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    Im not a pastor im just an average person like u. Nobody wants to see the truth because they become responsible for their actions. But when u tell a lie u create bondage and that 1 lie creates more lies and u become bound to it. The only way out of a nagging situation (u know the ones u loose sleep over) is to expose the truth! The truth will set u free! It doesnt matter what u have done or how unworthy u might feel the truth is God loves U U r very precious to him and he wants to give u a life 100x's better then what u have! Lies dictate how we live and hold us back from everything that means anything from us. I encourage u to make a decision for truth to flood over ur life if ur unsure how anyone here would love to help you because we all love u too!
     
  4. Occupy

    Occupy New Member

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    I have been in ministry over 3 decades. Most of it in simple disciple making and establishing small fellowships.
    (Not to testify of myself but provide a frame of reference.)
    A.) Why are people avoiding serious religious discussion?
    B.) Why are they uncomfortable with absolutes?
    C.) Why do they think God just says believe something and it is good enough?

    A.)
    1. What I have found is that most religious people are judgmental and critical.
      • This hypocrisy is the main reason for peoples avoidance.
    2. There is a vast difference between spiritual people and religious people.
      • Spiritual people operate in love from a heart of compassion
      • Religious people judge and measure and evaluate others by some standard oft of their own idoloteristic design.
    3. The second reason is avoidance of conviction and accountability.
      • A Saint with the Love of God coming out of their heart by the Holy Spirit will run into this.
      • If they are mature and know the power of the cross, Jesus and Him crucified ... then they are likely not easily offended and in mercy help others get saved even if they are actively avoiding the Holy Spirit convicting them of sin righteousness and judgment.
    4. The key here in ministry is to not opt for license or greasy grace as some compensation for legalism; but to have the aggressive and compassionate heart of mercy that rejoices over judgment.
    B.) God is Love. Jesus IS the way the truth and the life. God doesn't have to be religious ... well since He IS God and doesn't have to impress anyone.
    1. So Absolutes are a reality in many peoples belief structures as mine are stated above.
    2. This is why mercy triumphs and rejoices over judgement. We all need saving.
    3. Absolutes and presented in unrighteous weights and measures in contrast with Love and Mercy make people uncomfortable.
    4. So also truth shared without the commensurate grace and compassion is hard for others to receive.
    5. Remember Jesus was sent on a commission of "mercy and justice" because of Love and came full of Grace and Truth.
    6. This is the model for saints to operate in. (The Mercy Seat must be integral, ie-Christ jesus being at the center.)
    C.) Belief is in the design of man. No artwork has been created without it and no baby has crawled without it.
    1. It is integral to being able to see and to have vision and to explore.
    2. In fact those who don't believe don't "see" and those who do; have their eyes opened.
    3. The issue here is the differences between believing and faith and how they operate.
    4. Asking seeking and knocking are in the realms of belief and acts of a soul that is searching and integral to the design of mankind.
    5. Once the door is opened the realms of faith and the Spirit are available. Faith is a living substance of hope and evidence of things not yet seen.
    6. God provides us His word that He is more than happy to back with His power to make things less confusing for those who hear.
    7. Literally Faith comes by hearing ................ and hearing; by that very Word.
    8. The key here is to know how to minister in a way that it is preaching Christ so that He sows His word in others and Reproduces after Himself.
    9. It is the only way to make a disciple.
    In Summary:
    I have seen a lot ... from Satanic ritual abuse victims "and worse" to the presence and power of our beloved Savior and His great Love.
    I have come to realize that Love never fails. Compassion touches that misunderstood part of the heart of the wounded and oppressed.
    They want Jesus when the meet Him. Except in rare occasions where there is a soul sold to the Devil and the "host" wants it ... people break and get broken by His Great Love.
    They find it IS absolute regardless of their failings. The newagers seem to be the easiest. They talk the Christ Spirit a lot ... once they get to meet Him they usually get saved.
    Those steeped in religion are the hardest. Oft crusted over dogma based on bad doctrine and death.
    I believe boundaries and consequences are an obvious part of life and can be central to preaching as long as there is anointing and/or compassion.

    Our Job is to introduce Jesus in humility, compassion, love, grace, mercy and truth. When done so; people seem eager to be set free and embrace the truth.
    If not ... one sows and one waters and someone harvests. If not ... then still pour in the oil and wine, provide momentum and cover and safety and pay the bill; Jesus did.
    (The 5 or 6 Principle of love, overcoming and occupying ... you know 2 Kings 13:18+ and Luke 10:25+)

    George Sabin
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
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  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    My intent is not to engage in debate, at least until we get more activity. It is to simply keep the peace, if possible :victory: and encourage discussion.

    With that in mind, here I see three responses with three very different views all claiming to be Biblical and of God.

    Can all be correct? If so, how?

    If they cannot, who is right? Why and how?

    As I said, a good issue for discussion.

    Thanks for posting.
     
  6. pnwcowboy

    pnwcowboy New Member

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    I think we want so bad for others to awknowledge what we know instead of letting the holy spirit speak threw us. Im not chastizing anyone im guilty as well. But i thought when i posted i was encouraging someone which i was because when God speaks thru me i cant contain myself and i cry. Its not up to me how God chooses to touch someone but that I obey. U can know the bible backwards and forwards but u are not saving lives without the holy spirit and u can make it as difficult to understand if u want but at the end of the day unless God uses us we are useless without him.
     
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  7. clark thompson

    clark thompson Advanced Poster

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    If they are not of God then they do not want to hear about God because they will see their need for Him and lose their self desired independence. Those that are His are focused on other things and are not often focused on the things of God.
     
  8. CTZonEdit

    CTZonEdit Site Administrator Staff Member

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    We avoid things we don't understand or don't want to deal with. People either don't understand God or don't want to deal with Him.
    Absolutes hold us accountable for the choices we make. Eliminating absolutes makes us unaccountable.
    It comes down to faith in the source of the belief. If one believes the source of their faith to be the source of truth then that is good enough for them.
     
  9. Jessie

    Jessie Pro Poster

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    they are too afraid of offending someone.
     
  10. roman8

    roman8 Advanced Poster

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    The world is teaching that there are no absolutes. the flesh likes that so wants to believe it. They do not feel that any serious discussion is needed. Most feel they do not need to read the bible to know who God is or what he wants. So in doing that they break the first comandment , and create a God of their own making. So their god may very well tell them " just believe something " all religions are the same in the end. Absolutes make them uncomfortable because it causes our consience to fight against our flesh.
     
  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    I was looking for a more generic statements. Such as, "The Bible is a book of absolutes, we have to follow it." Or, "I believe science and Man seek the truth. As we discover more, we will have better answers." Or, "I believe God gives me the hidden and true meanings. Not everyone receives them."

    To start making doctrinal statements is beyond the scope of this topic and why it needs to be in a new thread.

    So, start a new thread and do a post here linking to it, if you wish. But, just one link, not repeated links.

    That applies to everyone who wishes to get into more detailed specifics. Otherwise, as has happened in the past, one or two people co-opt the thread as their own. Then no one else posts.

    It also allows people who overdo to simply be ignored by others. When a thread fails to encourage discussion, it is time to step back and think about.

    Trying to give everyone a chance to speak and discuss, not preach.

    Another function the forum script allows, is to set a time limit on how long a thread can go unanswered. Then it automatically is moved to an Archive, which can still be seen. We didn't do that in the past and the forum became a graveyard of dead topics.

    Really trying to do it correctly, this time. I hope all appreciate that approach.
     
  12. Ruth

    Ruth Getting Started

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    I could not have said it better. You speak with the same heart. God bless.

    I think the key is that most people are religious looking down on the lost in judgment. No one is attracted to that.

    When I came to a saving faith, it was not from the 'church' or a preacher. It was from the witness of one who lived the life and let His light shine through her. Even in her darkest moments, she would shine with love and peace and grace. I wanted what she had. I wanted to know the one through whom she had such peace and joy. She never preached, she just pointed to Jesus as the reason for her peace, joy, and love. I searched for Him until I met Him too.

    I have since come to realize that no amount of convincing or judging or threatening or warning people will bring them to a saving faith. At best, they will feel they have no choice and that is not love. It is simply self preservation.

    Jesus said to let our light shine, to love others, and to share the good news. That is how we honor Him and help the lost.
     
  13. Ruth

    Ruth Getting Started

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    In my own journey in speaking with non-believers, the central issue is not rejection of Christ but that they are extorted into it with the threat of eternal torment. If God needs to extort people with that threat then what He is offering wouldn't really be that appealing, in their eyes. I have to agree with them.

    I did further research on the teaching of eternal torment and was pleased to learn that the doctrine is not supported anywhere in scripture as taught by the 'church.' Jesus came to offer eternal life. It is not that we already had it but it was just a matter of where we spent it.

    If that is off topic, I apologize. But it goes directly to the claim of 'avoiding the questions' part of your OP.

    Unbelievers are not rejecting Christ or the gospel. They are rejecting doctrines of men.
     
  14. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    It is on topic, I believe.

    Now, if anyone wished to engage in a discussion concerning what you said, that would need to be in a different thread.
     
  15. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    Once again, all the claims cannot be true since they contradict each other. But, everyone answered the question posed here.

    Some great topics for other threads, if any are so inclined. :tiphat:
     
  16. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Administrator Staff Member

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    The discussion went off topic, so I moved the posts to a new thread HERE. Carry on there. :tiphat:
     
  17. mdtaz54@gmail.com

    mdtaz54@gmail.com New Member

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    serious discussion demand time dedication further sacrifice,modern outer world teach us there is no such need.
    uncomfortable with absolutes bz again lack of conviction in GOD and heareafter and more love for life of this world quraan say "you love this life of this world"
    God just says believe something and it is good enough? we want to take easiest of all even in muslim world ,people think they will get salvation just for being muslim and we love to ignore our actions
     

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