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The Relationship of Husband and Wife

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
An area that plays a role in almost everyone's life is marriage. Yet, it is one of the most personal, private, potentially embarrassing and controversial areas to talk about. Especially since it involves sex.

Yet, it should not be. The Bible is very clear on what is covered in this thread.

Therefore, time to talk about it. So, we need to get some historical context.
Genesis 2:
18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 5828
Original WordWord Origin
rz[from (05826)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
`ezerTWOT - 1598a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
ay'-zer Noun Masculine
Definition
  1. help, succour
    1. help, succour
    2. one who helps
NAS Word Usage - Total: 21
help 18, helper 2, helpers 1
Helper, not co-authority or power.

This is not a statement that wives are dumb, not to be listened to or anything of the sort. Proverbs 31:10-31 has nothing but praise of a God fearing wise wife. It says a man who has such is truly blessed.

Are there stupid men in the world? Far too many. Even among Christians? Sadly so.

But does that change what the Bible says about marriage? No.

Moving on we now look at what the Bible says next about the relationship between a husband and wife:
Genesis 3:

16. To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4910
Original WordWord Origin
lXma primitive root
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
MashalTWOT - 1259
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
maw-shal' Verb
Definition
  1. to rule, have dominion, reign
    1. (Qal) to rule, have dominion
    2. (Hiphil)
      1. to cause to rule
      2. to exercise dominion
NAS Word Usage - Total: 79
dominion 1, gain control 1, govern 1, had charge 1, have authority 1, master 1, obtain dominion 1, really going to rule 1, rule 27, ruled 5, ruler 18, ruler's 2, rulers 6, rules 9, ruling 3, wielded 1
Note Genesis 2:24 is a statement of monogamy (one husband and one wife). Polygamy (one husband and more than one wife) first appeared in Genesis 4:19.

Understanding polygamy was an accepted reality in those ancient days, we look at marriage in ancient Israel.

God had no Law on the earth other than Conscience. So, incest and polygamy were not actually prohibited. But, even with that, monogamy was the most common form of marriage, followed by polygamy.

With the Mosaic Law came strict prohibition of incest.

Polygamy was tolerated, but with study of the Bible you can see God did not promote it or favor it. He did heavily regulate it.

Marriage was highly structured in Israel. The Jewish Wedding Custom shows marriage back then did not resemble marriage today. While a bride had to accept the groom with the consent of her father, the groom had to buy her from her father.

She, and all her property belonged to the husband, technically.

The second way a woman could become a wife is if she were a slave and they had sex. Mosaic Law says he had to marry her.

Again, slavery is another area where it was accepted, but not God endorsed. Mosaic Law encouraged all to seek freedom, legally.

It sounds cold, but as with all such things it was frequently far more complicated. Husbands loved their wives and wives they husbands. They took care of each other, but, it was always understood and accepted he was the head of the house and the final say.

You also see in the Bible where women went to men who could take care of them and offered themselves as wives when there was no family for her, etc.

Just saying here do not think the issues of marriage, sex, etc were all the man taking advantage of women. You would be very wrong. Humans were and remain humans.

Moving on to New Testament, what does the Bible say about marriage? It says the men are to be loving, understanding, gentle and caring for their wives. It says the wives are to loving, understanding, gentle and caring for their husbands. It says the husband is the head of the house and wives are to be submissive to him.

Right there is a trigger for a lot of resistance, even among Christians. But that is what the Bible says.

Let the Bible speak for itself. There are many verses throughout the Bible on this topic. Here are some stating it most clearly:
Ephesians 5:

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
1 Corinthians 7:

7 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1 Timorthy 2:

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 5292
Original WordWord Origin
upotagefrom (5293)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Hupotage8:46,1156
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
hoop-ot-ag-ay' Noun Feminine
Definition
  1. the act of subjecting
  2. obedience, subjection
NAS Word Usage - Total: 4
control 1, obedience 1, subjection 1, submissiveness 1
Another reality, which is being acknowledge by more and more of the feminist of the world, is biology. They want to be dominated during sex.

Secular research has shown most women want strong men who can take the lead, even if only when things get rough. A lot will argue this point, but it is a reality.

Medical research has also found during sex men's drive become more aggressive and dominating. But, women become more passive, receptive and obedient.

Clearly, God built the roles of husband and wife into us. Just like he put in the Law of Conscience, it is there and not to be ignored without suffering very negative consequences; personally, family and culturally.

We see a clear evolution of marriage throughout history. What you do not see changing is God's plan for marriage is monogamy, love, caring and meeting sexual needs with the husband as the head of the house and the wife being submissive to him in that role.

That does not mean the wife has no rights or opinions, but it does mean the husband has the final say. It is a mutually respectful relationship, but you cannot have two “Chiefs” and no “Indians.”

This opens the door for other issues and conversations to follow, both on this topic and related ones.
 

roman8

Advanced Poster
I have no problem with the structure and roles that God has ordained.
But from my experience so far I see very little preaching or teaching to men on how to "love their wives as Christ loves the church.
Many women are forced into taking a dominant role because their husbands simply will not lead the family, not hard for women to do because it our nature to do that. It would not be that difficult for a women to submit to a husband if he was following Christ , if they loved there wives , cared, protected and provided for, even with our nature to rule, it would be easier to be submissive.
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
It is difficult, no doubt about it. Falling Away from the teachings and living principles of being a Christian are dominating our culture, sadly.

The only thing I disagree with is women having a nature to rule. I believe they have a nature to protect and guide.

While they resemble each other, they are different.

God didn't make husbands and wives to fight with each other and fail to give support. But we see it everywhere today.
 

roman8

Advanced Poster
I have nothing but respect for you Core, But I believe that Gen 3:16 does not mean a sexual desire for husbands , I don't see how that is a curse on the women. But I do believe that it is about a type of control. Im not alone in that belief . I copied a bit from a John McArthur sermon, there are many others as well. also being a woman I can speak from experience that submission is something I need to work at everyday .


Now let's look at the specific of the language here that expresses the conflict. "Your desire shall be for your husband." Now let's talk about the word "desire." What does it mean? It's an interesting word, it comes from an Arabic root and I have continued to survey this passage because it's been a passage of some controversy. But it is of Arabic root meaning to seek control. Literally it could read, "You shall seek control over your husband...you will desire to exert your will," that is a sign of the curse, "you will desire to take charge, to be in control, to master." And that desire shows up in various women in various ways. In some of them it's a quiet, silent desire that smolders, with others it is a shouting desire that isn't much of a secret to anybody. And the more godless women are, very often the more hostile they are toward men. Sometimes that hostility takes the attitude of coldness, indifference, apathy. Because she can't achieve what she wants, she eventually becomes totally indifferent and apathetic toward the man.
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
I have nothing but respect for you Core, But I believe that Gen 3:16 does not mean a sexual desire for husbands , I don't see how that is a curse on the women. But I do believe that it is about a type of control. Im not alone in that belief . I copied a bit from a John McArthur sermon, there are many others as well. also being a woman I can speak from experience that submission is something I need to work at everyday .


Now let's look at the specific of the language here that expresses the conflict. "Your desire shall be for your husband." Now let's talk about the word "desire." What does it mean? It's an interesting word, it comes from an Arabic root and I have continued to survey this passage because it's been a passage of some controversy. But it is of Arabic root meaning to seek control. Literally it could read, "You shall seek control over your husband...you will desire to exert your will," that is a sign of the curse, "you will desire to take charge, to be in control, to master." And that desire shows up in various women in various ways. In some of them it's a quiet, silent desire that smolders, with others it is a shouting desire that isn't much of a secret to anybody. And the more godless women are, very often the more hostile they are toward men. Sometimes that hostility takes the attitude of coldness, indifference, apathy. Because she can't achieve what she wants, she eventually becomes totally indifferent and apathetic toward the man.
I didn't say sexual only, since there is far more to marriage than sex. But to say it isn't a very important aspect is contradictory to human nature and the Bible.

The NT says it is better not to marry but if there is need for sex one should marry.

As for the word meaning:
Strong's Number: 8669
Original WordWord Origin
hqwXtfrom (07783) in the original sense of stretching out after
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
T@shuwqahTWOT - 2352a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
tesh-oo-kaw' Noun Feminine
Definition
  1. desire, longing, craving
    1. of man for woman
    2. of woman for man
    3. of beast to devour
The original root word is:
  • The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
    Strong's Number: 7783
    Original WordWord Origin
    qwXa primitive root
    Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
    ShuwqTWOT - 2351
    Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
    shook Verb
    Definition
    1. to be abundant (meaning probable)
      1. (Polel) to give abundance to
      2. (Hiphil) to overflow
Extreme desire is exactly what it means.

Sorry, but it isn't from the Arabic language. Both the Arabic and Aramaic (Hebrew) are descended from the Semitic language. They are siblings, Hebrew is not sibling to Arabic.

Digging through translations I found the New English Translation and New Living Translation agreed with you. None of the others did, including Jewish translations.

Searching the Internet seemed to confirm these are the only two that do so.

They are terrible translations, full of errors.

I agree women often have a tendency to try to take control, just as Eve misled Adam. I agree that as husbands can struggle submitting to God as wives struggle submitting to their husbands.

That does not change the realities I pointed out. It does add the dimension of the struggle we have as humans on desire vs right vs ego and other destructive elements of sin nature. In fact, it ties in with another issue I have been debating to get into.
 
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2404

New Member
I think a lot of the issue revolves around the service being a necessity to our calling. I think this shows that we are not quite there yet. If our service, what ever station we find ourselves in, was a result of the Word living in us then the earthly implications would't be a factor.
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
The earthly realities are inescapable. Adam and Eve had sex when sin and death entered their lives, along with knowledge of good and evil.

We die and it takes sex to keep the world populated. Sex requires strong enough desire to overcome our resistance to it. We loose.

Our sin nature gets into even our sex drives as it does into everything else.

At the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which all believers receive, our spirits are cleansed. But, our bodies are still sin driven and won't be cleansed until the Rapture.

Then we will not have a sex drive, will not marry, etc. But neither will their be any more physical death.

Until then, we are stuck with the war between our two natures. As Paul says he looses that war someway every day, as we all do.
 

2404

New Member
The earthly realities are inescapable. Adam and Eve had sex when sin and death entered their lives, along with knowledge of good and evil.

We die and it takes sex to keep the world populated. Sex requires strong enough desire to overcome our resistance to it. We loose.

Our sin nature gets into even our sex drives as it does into everything else.

At the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which all believers receive, our spirits are cleansed. But, our bodies are still sin driven and won't be cleansed until the Rapture.

Then we will not have a sex drive, will not marry, etc. But neither will their be any more physical death.

Until then, we are stuck with the war between our two natures. As Paul says he looses that war someway every day, as we all do.
True enough I don't think anyone expects perfection in the flesh but if we are willing to be led by the Holy Spirit then we have no problems with the Word.
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
Not quite sure what you mean, here. If you mean "Word," as in being Christ, I agree. If you mean accepting the Bible, we can do so but it a struggle to live up to.

There are those who believe we can, and that is called Entire Sanctification, a totally false teaching, since we cannot achieve it even short term,

Our flesh always gets in the way, even if only in little ways.
 

2404

New Member
I understand that we can't keep the letter but the Word in us makes us perfect through the attonement.
As for the Word being Christ - that gets into the God head...
 

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
I understand that we can't keep the letter but the Word in us makes us perfect through the attonement.
Only our spirits, not our flesh. We have two natures, not one. They both function in our lives, not just one.
As for the Word being Christ - that gets into the God head...
The Word is just the Second Person of the Godhead, not the Father and Holy Spirit as well.
 
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