In my own journey in speaking with non-believers, the central issue is not rejection of Christ but that they are extorted into it with the threat of eternal torment. If God needs to extort people with that threat then what He is offering wouldn't really be that appealing, in their eyes. I have to agree with them.
I did further research on the teaching of eternal torment and was pleased to learn that the doctrine is not supported anywhere in scripture as taught by the 'church.' Jesus came to offer eternal life. It is not that we already had it but it was just a matter of where we spent it.
On the contrary. Once you start examining the evidence and setting your heart on seeking Him, not among men but sincerely seeking Him, you do find Him and the truth.Some people do think critically about their beliefs. They then become atheists.
Once you start requiring evidence and reason for your beliefs, you can't remain a Christian.
In my own journey in speaking with non-believers, the central issue is not rejection of Christ but that they are extorted into it with the threat of eternal torment. If God needs to extort people with that threat then what He is offering wouldn't really be that appealing, in their eyes. I have to agree with them.
I did further research on the teaching of eternal torment and was pleased to learn that the doctrine is not supported anywhere in scripture as taught by the 'church.' Jesus came to offer eternal life. It is not that we already had it but it was just a matter of where we spent it.
I fully agree that a God that creates hell and then condemns people to hell for not worshipping him is an evil God.
But you've fallen in the trap that every believer does. You don't like something, so your reread the scripture until you've convinced yourself that the scripture agrees with you. The scripture is so flexible and contradictory that you can read it however you want and come to whatever conclusion that you want.
On the contrary. Once you start examining the evidence and setting your heart on seeking Him, not among men but sincerely seeking Him, you do find Him and the truth.Some people do think critically about their beliefs. They then become atheists.
Once you start requiring evidence and reason for your beliefs, you can't remain a Christian.
It is on topic, I believe.
Now, if anyone wished to engage in a discussion concerning what you said, that would need to be in a different thread.
I personally believe that the extortion of eternal torment or bow to God is the number one reason people don't pursue the religion of Christianity.
On the contrary. Once you start examining the evidence and setting your heart on seeking Him, not among men but sincerely seeking Him, you do find Him and the truth.Some people do think critically about their beliefs. They then become atheists.
Once you start requiring evidence and reason for your beliefs, you can't remain a Christian.
The "setting your heart on seeking Him" introduces what scientists call "confirmation bias" and is something that must be avoided. I will go where the evidence leads me. That is the only honest course of action.
I will rationally, scientifically and sincerely examine any evidence that you can offer in support for the existence of the Christian God.
I personally believe that the extortion of eternal torment or bow to God is the number one reason people don't pursue the religion of Christianity.
Plus the many other immoral parts of the bible. God killing 25 million people in the Old Testament. God telling us that it's okay to whip our slaves half to death. God telling us that he'll punish our children if we follow the wrong God. God telling us to stone our children to death if they are disobedient etc.
Plus the simple lack of evidence for a God.
LOL How does a scientist explain why a fireman will run into a burning building to rescue a stranger even when he knows he may die doing so?
but to deny it is a religion where you put your faith in the doctrines of men is to be naive in what you are really doing.
Tell me a few things that you believe science about that you think prove there is not God.
I am not one who thinks the Bible is infallible
I let my personal relationship with Him teach me which is which.
why is earth the only planet we have found with beauty on it?
Why are all the surrounding planets, including the moon, just dull, blank ugly rocks?
Why is there such beauty on earth that just happens to touch our hearts and be able to be seen by our eyes? There is no purpose to it.
Even Darwin had to admit that the complexities of the human body and even the human eye goes far beyond what could have simply 'evolved.'
Recently, the DNA codes were discovered to be so complex that many scientists realized that it could only come from intelligent design.
If you saw writing on the sand at the beach would you assume it just happened due to the way the waves flooded back and forth or would you automatically realize that an intelligence put it there? Well that is what scientists are realizing with the DNA complex code. It is far past the idea of just evolving. It clearly has an intelligent designer.
LOL How does a scientist explain why a fireman will run into a burning building to rescue a stranger even when he knows he may die doing so?
First off, you simply not understanding something does not mean that there is a supernatural explanation.
Second, we've known the reason for a long time. The mechanical explanation is that in times of danger to ourselves or others, our body is flooded with adrenaline, which dampens our rational thinking and increases our emotions. The reason for this response is just evolution:
Tribes which protected each other survived better than tribes that didn't.
We see this behaviour in most pack animals. There are many videos on youtube of animals putting their own life at risk in order to save others. I can find some for you if you want.
but to deny it is a religion where you put your faith in the doctrines of men is to be naive in what you are really doing.
It's not a religion or a faith for the very simple reason that it is based on evidence and is scientifically testable and falsifiable.
Tell me a few things that you believe science about that you think prove there is not God.
The burden of proof is not on me.
Do you believe that there are flying pink unicorns? Presumably not. Yet you cannot prove that they do not exist.
The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that God exists.
On the contrary. Once you start examining the evidence and setting your heart on seeking Him, not among men but sincerely seeking Him, you do find Him and the truth.
No. The same one who spoke the universe into existence and told us prophecy from the beginning can also speak to the heart who seeks Him in what is and is not His word.I am not one who thinks the Bible is infallible
Okay, so you believe that God wants us to know him, but he provides us with a fallible book with many inaccuracies?
Doesn't that strike you as a little strange?
I let my personal relationship with Him teach me which is which.
Why? You don't. You believe in evolution and yet there is not one ounce of proof.This introduces personal bias - such as confirmation bias.
You need objective unbiased evidence.
why is earth the only planet we have found with beauty on it?
That doesn't even make sense.We find something "beautiful" if it is likely to support us.
Why are all the surrounding planets, including the moon, just dull, blank ugly rocks?
You miss the point. Clearly any points I make are lost on you.You find no beauty in Jupiter? http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/life-unbounded/files/2011/12/Jupiter-Close-Up.jpg
Or Saturn: http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cassinirings.jpg (That's a real photo btw)
Why is there such beauty on earth that just happens to touch our hearts and be able to be seen by our eyes? There is no purpose to it.
And 'evolution' knew this about us and wove it in. Don't you see a problem with that thinking?Sure there is - the purpose of beauty is to make us look after our environment and to stay where it is safe. Evolution at its best.
Even Darwin had to admit that the complexities of the human body and even the human eye goes far beyond what could have simply 'evolved.'
If he didn't say it then he is a bigger fraud then I realized. I was giving him credit for some integrity. So you believe, as Darwin did (and don't you dare deny this because it is the subheading of his book) that you evolved from apes and the negro species in Africa were savages evolved from apes and a lesser being (closer to animal) than whites?No he didn't - sorry. This is a common mistake told by Christians, but if you check it's just simply not true.
Recently, the DNA codes were discovered to be so complex that many scientists realized that it could only come from intelligent design.
Wow. You really need to do your own research with an open heart and mind and stop being a parrot of your teachers.And by "some" you mean the tiny tiny percentage of creationists? This is not a majority view at all.
If you saw writing on the sand at the beach would you assume it just happened due to the way the waves flooded back and forth or would you automatically realize that an intelligence put it there? Well that is what scientists are realizing with the DNA complex code. It is far past the idea of just evolving. It clearly has an intelligent designer.
LOL This just shows that you are not interested in an intelligent debate. If you think you just saying it isn't true is supposed to be the end of it and you win? Think again. If your responses don't improve, I won't be responding again.This is simply just not true.
I'm strong enough in my faith and far enough along in my walk to know that nothing I can say will change your mind
You believe in evolution and yet there is not one ounce of proof.
I know I will not convince you there is a God so why are we doing this?
And 'evolution' knew this about us and wove it in.
So you believe, as Darwin did (and don't you dare deny this because it is the subheading of his book) that you evolved from apes and the negro species in Africa were savages evolved from apes and a lesser being (closer to animal) than whites?
I personally believe that the extortion of eternal torment or bow to God is the number one reason people don't pursue the religion of Christianity. It is probably one of the most important topics Christians should be discussing because it represents God's character to the lost. If wrong, which I believe those who teach eternal torment are, then they are putting a huge stumbling block before many and representing God to be a cosmic monster.
The bible also says that God is merciful.
Just and merciful are not compatible. You can't be both.
The bible also says that God is merciful.
Just and merciful are not compatible. You can't be both.
God is the ultimate judge and a judge's punishment must the fit crime.
Yet God has provided a way out. Showing His mercy.
God is both merciful and just.
Letting people off and giving them no punishment is thus not just.